Madagascar Giant Day Gecko Questions

[fastfoward5k]

I am going to get a P. m. grandis soon! :biggrin: I just have a few questions about them:

1. Is it okay to buy one with a small skin tear? I just went to a reptile show (couldn't get it there :sad: ) and most of them had small skin tears. I know that Phelsuma have sensitive skin that tears easily, but there be any health problems because of it? Will it leave a scar or heal?

2. I am planning on getting an 18 x 18 x 24 Exo Terra glass terrarium and make a living vivarium out of it for him. I want to have a pond/waterfall, live plants (pothos, bromelaid, sanservia, any other suggestions?), a rock or bark background, and wood/vines/rocks/bamboo/other climbing materials. Does all this sound okay?

3. I am going to start out with a hatchling, juvenille, or sub-adult. Would the cage (above ^ ) be too big for him to start with?

4. The heating/lighting sources I am planning on using for him are: Exo Terra 2.0 Compact UV Bulb, Exo Terra 10.0 Compact UV Bulb, Exo Terra 75 Watt Daylight Bulb, and Exo Terra 40 Watt Nocturnal Bulb (to raise ambient temps. and to keep him from getting cold at night because my house gets cold). Is all that okay?

5. I already have a Crested Gecko, so I keep CGD in my house. Can I use the CGD or do I have to buy that Phelsuma Diet for him? And does this diet sound okay (of course not all of this at once, just all the stuff I would feed him): Mealworms, Phoenix Worms, Silkworms, Wax Worms, Butter Worms, Hornworms (very occasional), f/t Pinkie Mice (?, maybe when adult), Crested Gecko Diet, and Bannana/Peach/Apricot/Strawberry Baby Food?

Thanks! :yikes:

 

[Ingo]

Hi,

small skin tears do not matter for grandis. Even large skin lesions do heal well without any special care.
The tank planned is far from being to big for a baby but it is way too small for an adult.
Adult grandis exceed 10" and are arboreal geckos. As a rule of thumb, for arboreal lizards the tank should be at least 4 times as tall as the total length of the animal. For grandis, it should be at least 3.5, better 4 or 5 ft tall. I know that you guys in the US do have a tendency for small tanks. But I stick to recommend looking primarily at the natural behaviour of the animals to keep and choose the tank according to their needs. A 24" tall tank binds arboreal animals of the size of a grandis literally to the floor. Here in Europe, recommended miminum tanks sizes for a single grandis or a pair are like 50 x 80 x 100 cm (~20 x 30 x 40"). This is well accepted and reasonable. No doubt that many geckos, including grandis live long and breed in even the most unappropriately sized tanks. But after all, we do not want to imprison our herps but provide an apt replacement for their natural territory, don´t we?
Your planned lights do sound quite OK. But get rid of the night bulb. you just do not need it. A significant temp drop at night is natural and raises the relative humidity which is beneficial for the gecko.
Also in your setup I do not see any bright light. The 75 W Exoterra spot is old fashioned technology with very poor light yield and spectrum. Even though Phelsuma are secondary diurnal animals ant not truly heliophile, Phelsuma keepers -at least here in Europe- have best experiences with providing at least a small area with light intensities close to the natural environment. This is achieved best by installing metal halides in addition to the fluorescent lights. For Phelsuma a 70 W HQI (or HCI, CDM-T ...) with a colour temp between 4000 and 5000K -use this instead of the 75 W Exoterra Spot- would suffice.
Your diet sounds OK. But forget about the pinkies and try to add a cricket or some other agile insect with lower fat content than all these larvae on a regular basis. Also take care not to overfeed your gecko. Grandis do not need much food. Moreover, take care of apt supplementation , especially concerning Vitamin D 3 and calcium salts.

Hope that helps

Ingo

 

[Gecko Ranch]

I don't have a lot to add to that except about the lighting. Myself and some other Phelsuma breeders in the USA have had great success using good bright lights like T8 flourescents along with halogen or incandescent lighting for heat. What seems to be critical is the good bright light component and the use of a high quality vitamin supplement in the Phelsuma diet. Successful breeders use either 2:1 RepCal with D3 to Herptivite or Repashy Calcium Plus (what I use, all in one supplement).

I also recommend some reading for you:

"Day Geckos in Captivity" by Greg and Leann Christenson
and
"Geckos" - an edited book by me, mostly written by me and a good Phelsuma section, descriptions of Phelsuma by Sean McKeown, husbandry comments by me.
Once you have read those then:
"Day Geckos Professional Series" by Bruse, Meyer an Schmidt.

You should be on the right track then!

 

[Ingo]

I agree that the kind of lighting setup you describe works quite well. After all, it is what people have used for decades. But its NOT good bright lights what you describe.
Better is superior over good, isn´t it?
Only since metal halides are readily available, it is possible to provide basking spots at natural light intensities of 100 000 Lux and more. With a halogen bulb of 150 W you hardly ever reach 8000 lux at a distance of only 1 ft and you are down to below 1000 lox at 3 ft! With T8 you do never exceed 5000 Lux in a distance of 1 ft. And in fact , the differences matter with respect to colour and activity of the animals.
I admit, the effect is less pronounced for Phelsuma than for true heliophilic animals, but it is still worth it.
Here in Europe, herpers widely employ metal halides since a couple of years and thus, we do have accumulated quite some experiences-which are 100% positive.
Hence, I do not understand, why this state of the art lighting is hardly used by US herpers.
Maybe you can help me out with an explanation, I am lost....
After all, the light yield of a HCI with 4000K is about 3-4 fold of that of a Halogen bulb and other than that, its spectrum is much closer to natural sunlight.
The same applies for old T8 vs T5, especially T5 HO.
Still you can pimp T8 by using electronic control gear (sorry, I am not sure about the english word for EVG) to have almost the light yield of a T5, but strange enough, only very few people do so.
However, if you use T5 HO, you benefit from the higher light output per inch of tube length (~ 40% more than for the best T8 ) which helps you to bring more light into your tank, even though the relative light yield of these tubes is not better than for T8. Quite importantly, the smaller diameter of T5 allows a much more efficient use of reflectors than for T8. Self shadowing effects are strongly reduced and moreover T5 light output optimum tolerates much higher environmental temp. than for T8, meaning that T5 are even more efficient in the warm micro environment they typically experience in a herp setup.
All this is well known, there is a lot of experience out there and still in the US I see most herpers using old fashioned incandescent bulbs, T8 fluerescents and the like and I hardly ever see T5 or metal halides.
Thats a mystery to me...maybe someone here can explain.


BR

Ingo

 

[Gecko Ranch]

Hi Ingo, the non-use of the type of lighting you describe by most Americans is likely mostly due to budget concerns and also lack of knowledge of high end lighting and where to buy that type of lighting. I would love to try some of these things out, however, when you are successful breeding Phelsuma using the T8 type set-ups I describe it does not motivate you to do so.

 

[dberger]

Ok, I would like to give HQI lights a try on my 18"x18"x24" tall Exo Terra tank for Phelsumas. However, I have problems to find any fixture which is small enough and is sold with a 70W 4000K-5000K bulb. The closest I found so far would be a 20" Sunpod fixture from Current USA with a 70W 14000K bulb. Also I wonder whether a HQI lamp would overheat this tank and/or melt the plastic bar of the Exo Terra top cover? Does anyone have experience with using HQI lights on this type of tank? If so, what fixture do you use?

Thanks!

 

[oeamon]

I am hesitant to chime in given the excellent replies from senior members such as Gecko Ranch and Ingo. But here I go ...:lol: It is my impression that European keepers are much more likely to employ the "naturalistic" vivarium in keeping their animals. I strive for that look as well. The question of metal halide lamps is interesting. The same analogies can be drawn to aquarists as well. I think the advantages of metal halides have been very well spelled out by Ingo. The light intensity of the metal halide cannot be matched by fluorescent bulbs. However, he admitted "the effect is less pronounced for Phelsuma than for true heliophilic animals". I think that is why aquarists rarely use metal halide except in saltwater tanks with live coral. I am willing to employ metal halides if needed but for Phelsuma, it does not seem neccessary. I will not argue asthetics as this is a personal preference. The disadvantanges of metal halide are 1) higher intial cost of equipment 2) higher maintenance cost because of the electricity costs and 3) heat production. I live in a warm dry climate and my tanks must be partially covered to maintain adequate humidity so excessive heat is a problem. As a compromise, I use compact fluorescents which are brighter and more energy efficient than normal output fluorescent bulbs. However, multiple bulb T5 fluorescent fixtures would be comparable.

These are just my opinions and please correct me if I'm wrong. I have had little experience with metal halide fixtures and perhaps the newer models have corrected some of the disadvantages of the old fixtures.

 

[Gecko Ranch]

Love your reply and useful information! Thank you!

I am hesitant to chime in given the excellent replies from senior members such as Gecko Ranch and Ingo. But here I go ...:lol: It is my impression that European keepers are much more likely to employ the "naturalistic" vivarium in keeping their animals. I strive for that look as well. The question of metal halide lamps is interesting. The same analogies can be drawn to aquarists as well. I think the advantages of metal halides have been very well spelled out by Ingo. The light intensity of the metal halide cannot be matched by flourescent bulbs. However, he admitted "the effect is less pronounced for Phelsuma than for true heliophilic animals". I think that is why aquarists rarely use metal halide except in saltwater tanks with live coral. I am willing to employ metal halides if needed but for Phelsuma, it does not seem neccessary. I will not argue asthetics as this is a personal preference. The disadvantanges of metal halide are 1) higher intial cost of equipment 2) higher maintenance cost because of the electricity costs and 3) heat production. I live in a warm dry climate and my tanks must be partially covered to maintain adequate humidity so excessive heat is a problem. As a compromise, I use compact fluorescents which are brighter and more energy efficient than normal output fluorescent bulbs. However, multiple bulb T5 fluorescent fixtures would be comparable.

These are just my opinions and please correct me if I'm wrong. I have had little experience with metal halide fixtures and perhaps the newer models have corrected some of the disadvantages of the old fixtures.

 

[dberger]

Thank you for your nice reply!
I will go for compact fluorescent lighting as a cheap&easy first solution.
However I am not sure whether metal halide lighting would necessarily need more electricity than conventional lighting, at least if the metal halide lamp can also provide sufficient UV and heat. If I use two 26W compact fluorescent lights together with a 20W puck halogen basking light instead of one single 70W metal halide, the overall wattage is similar..
Also I am not sure how much heat a metal halide light produces and whether that would be a problem. I think one could hang the lamp at some distance above the tank to reduce heating? Of course that would also reduce light intensity.

 

[rhatfield]

An other possibility is these halogen spot lights you find at home depot. They are black round lights, 1"X3", silvered center with a small halogen light bulb, with a cord, in packs of 1 to 6. I think the six pack was 30 dollars. The lights say E192089 ?? TLF FGGL032 (the ?? = a back ward RU) on thr frount. My klemmiri really like the hot spot created by the lights.