Keeping dart frogs with Lygodactylus williamsi or other lizard

[lizardman123]

Hi,

Would this be ok? I am thinking about getting a few dart frogs or just getting another species of Lygodactylus or the Phelsumas species. Would each work? I am think about making it a completely observation tank and want to make both the plants and animals very beautiful. I know I will get a lot of people saying it is risky and I know it may be risky but what is the risk when they are of equal size? I know a crested gecko may not work or something a long those lines.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[lizardman123]

If you have any suggestions please post them. I am going to a reptile show in April and my Lygodactylus geckos (I am getting them within two weeks) will be here and thriving, just thought I'd try finding something else to make the vivarium really interesting.

 

[cliff_f]

One of the first things you need to do is look at the care for each animal. Then you might want to look at what type of setup each animal requires and how you would set them up separately, if you would set the two up different then they probably wont do good together. If the care is pretty similar then you might be able to get away with it. Do you know how to care for each animal separately and exactly what each ones requirements are?

 

[lizardman123]

Sorry, I meant the geckos having or the frogs having similar care. Like Dart frogs can be kept at similar temperatures and fed almost the same things as a williamsi. Except the nectar and stuff.

 

[jpg]

Well dart frogs need to be kept at a much higher absolute humidity than Williamsii . Also darts are much more fragile and would run into problems from stress enduced by the geckos . I strongly recommend against it .

Look into amphibians or other herps indigeoness to Tanzania .

 

[lizardman123]

Alright, will do.

 

[Dendro_Dave]

I keep both, and my williamsi are in what was orginally a dart frog vivarium that i modified with a mesh strip so i could add uv lighting. I also put a stick on heat mat on the back at an upper corner. Basically this setup maintains the proper temperatures and somewhat lower humidty at the top with the increased ventilation. But the bottom half of the tank maintains an ideal environment for many dart species/morphs.

The williamsi mostly stick to the upper parts of the tank as they are arboreal, while most of the larger darts will tend to favor the floor area or mid level parts of the tank, but can easily tolerate the environment in the upper parts as long as they arent forced to remain in it indefinately. The taller the tank the better. And keep in mind i am talking about a natural setup with live plants, soil, moss etc...In a mostly artifical setup this would be much harder to do as its harder to establish the needed micro climates.

So in short It can be done, but as others stated you really should be well versed on the care of both species and the requirements for individual dart species and even morphs of the same species have slightly different requirements in ideal situations. So some would be better suited to this then others. Ideally you will have kept both species seperately for sometime before attempting this. But having said all that there are alot of dart frog keepers that keep small anole and daygecko species in their vivariums successfully including myself.

I would avoid thumbnail species of darts as they are small enough that an overzealous williamsi may try to take a go at one....and while most pumilio morphs are large enough that a williamsi probably wouldnt bother one they are pretty territorial and have even been known to stress out larger species of darts when kept together. That should only be attempted by someone very experienced and in a very large tank, or not at all.

Good luck with em, they are cool lil guys...i finally got an egg or 2 out of mine, crossing my fingers!

 

[lizardman123]

I think I will look into it. I will wait though until I know what I am doing and I have everything down pat.

 

[lizardman123]

Would a Phelsuma Klemmeri work or a Phelsuma Barbouri?

 

[lizardman123]

What kind of lights do you guys use for your Lygodactylus any suggestions?

 

[Dendro_Dave]

What kind of lights do you guys use for your Lygodactylus any suggestions?

I use a zoo med 5.0 bulb, a 10.00 would probably be even better over mesh, since it blocks alot of the incoming uv. I need to replace mine soon, its kinda old, but i also supplement occasionally with calcium/d3 just to be safe.

The repti sun 5.0 and above are probably fine too, along with the zilla brand tropical and desert lights.

 

[lizardman123]

Would that help the plants grow if I put a 10.0 reptiglow on my plants would that help the plants I am going to put in?

 

[Dendro_Dave]

Ya that should be fine for plants, now as far as it being better then a full spectrum im not sure, i read up on all that along time ago but have since forgot But it will work just fine. As a general rule, a very general rule, i try to put about 2-3 watts per gallon on my tanks, and generally that is adequate light for all the plants, and for the tank not to look to dark to my eyes. Ofcourse the type of lights, the height of the tank, and the type of plants are factors to consider. If you have all low light plants you can get away with less light ofcourse, and some lights are in general better for plants then others. But you may need to put more light on a tall tanks so it can get down to your shorter plants or moss. But 2-3 watts per gallon will atleast put you in the "adequate" range usually.

And no one says you cant mix lights...like a 6500k(white with a hint of blue usually) full spectrum teamed up with your zoo med 10.0 light(cool blue), and maybe a standard aquarium light that tends towards the red spectrum(redish purple), or even a 3500k(looks more orange). I find those combinations to give a pleasing look, atleast to my eye. Unless your tank is really short i'd try for 3 watts per gallon, its usually not to much, and almost always enough... but if stuff starts to brown/burn just remove a light, or switch to lower wattage bulbs in one, or whatever u gotta do to take it down a notch

 

[lizardman123]

Yeah I just want to help the plants to grow. They are dying a little I am watering them. I got them shipped.

 

[Trouser]

yeah i would love to do something like that with my p laticauda pair

 

[Thetattooedone]

If you do decide to mix, just watch the darts carefully. A lot of times they won't show obvious signs of stress. But increased hiding, reduction in aggressive feeding, unwillingness to explore their full territory- these are all tell tale signs of stress with darts. It can be very noticable or it can be slight changes, but be sure to watch for these signs as they're usually the first indicators of a decline.

 

[lizardman123]

Yep! will do. I actually think that I will be getting some plants that will be very high, so there is a possibility that the dart frogs may just see the L. williamsi when feeding.

 

[Thetattooedone]

Ideally that's how it'll play out. But just the stress of having to compete for food can make darts overly stressed. You'll see this commonly with groups of darts as well. With these guys, it's no always outright aggression that pushes them over the edge. Especially with typically timid species. Auratus, while great darts, have been known to be more on the shy side and become very reclusive when bothered. Where as C. Azureiventris would probably vigorously compete for the food and be none the worse for wear. I personally don't see mixing as a huge concern providing you meet both species needs and give them enough space to where their not directly interacting all the time. Just make sure you also select species that are going to be more likely to thrive in a mixed tank.

 

[lizardman123]

Any suggestions for geckos or frogs?

 

[Dendro_Dave]

Azureus, Tincs, luecs, e. trivittatus, p. vittatus, p. bicolor, and p. terriblis. i double checked the temps stated for them in "professional breeders series: Poison frogs" And they have broader ranges that go a little higher then some of the other species. May want to do further research on tinc morphs though, as some morphs may be more adapted to a cooler climate.

I'd stay away from galacts, as all i have owned have been climbers. Luecs may be more prone to climbing also, mine werent in a tall tank so its hard to say. Other then p. vittatus i cant speak to bicolor and terriblis as being climbers. P. vittatus, for me atleast tended to stick to the floor or mid levels. Most tincs and azureus will usually not do much climbing, but any dart has the possibility to occasionally venture into the upper areas, given the usual tank size. Trivs are usually big frogs though and not much for climbing more then 6-8 inches.

On the gecko side, many small day gecko species, klemmeri especially are favored by dart froggers, and the lygodactylus species are an option. One thing to consider though is the possibility of some kind of cross contamination of pathogens between the two species especially if one of them is wild caught, I'd stick with captive bred frogs and geckos, especially if you are going to mix.

But i would really recommend keeping each species seperatly for awhile until you get "a feel" for each. Also putting alot of thought into tank design, make sure to have multiple levels and the higher the better. A tank with a false bottom, soil and all that will maintain temp and humidity better and likely be more stable then an artificial setup. And its always good to let a natural viv go for a couple weeks to a month or more before adding animals. Gives it a chance to cycle and for springtails and whatnot to get established.