L. Willamsi and tank mates - crabs, dart frogs

[Styx]

So I know this kind of thing has been asked before, but I have a different type of spin on it.

So it looks like I've been able to get my hands on a nice 24x18x14" exo terra, and I'm going to have that turned into a vivarium. I would like to put my future lygos in it. However, I would very much like to put all that floor space to good use also and put in some terrestrial animals I've been pining after.

In that size of a tank, do you think P. Terribilis would work with Lygos? Would you be inclined to think there would be any danger housing the lygos with the tadpoles from the frogs in the pond?

The other option is vampire crabs. Do you think the lygos would try to chow down on all the crabs or even the other way around (I've never read about any aggression like that with the crabs, but...)? What are your opinions on that setup?

And everything will be in QT before going in the vivs or introduced to one another as well as getting vet checked. And I am also going to be buying CB Willamsi, not WC.

 

[Dendro_Dave]

Im not sure on the size of the crabs, but even a small one could manage to pinch off a toe or something if they came into contact. And are their temp/humidity requirements in the tropical range?

In truth a pair of terriblis would probably be fine in a natural viv of that size assuming you have suitable ambient temp in your home to compliment your balance of lighting and ventilation to allow you to achieve a suitable temp/humidity in the lower tank for the darts and higher temp/lower humidity for the geckos.

The lygods willl inhabit the upper parts of the tanks where its hotter and somewhat less humid assuming you leave a portion of the screen uncovered (which u should) but i have to caution against keeping wc (escpecially new wc) geckos with CB darts especially if you havent kept each species seperately for some time. There is the potential for cross contamination, each species stressing the other out, and just not being able to maintain a suitable habitat for each at the same time in the same space.

In my particular circumstance i have a thermostat that kicks on the heat or AC depending on whats needed to maintain a constant temp within about 4 degrees. So once i get a habitat setup and achieve a balance its relatively easy for me to maintain, barring a power outage. A handy little item And betweent he normal 4 degree drop i usually get, and all the lights and stuff going off at night, i get a pretty suitable overall night time temp drop.

So anyways ya wouldnt reccomend it, but if you are gonna do it, first wait and keep both seperate for 6months or so atleast then...do it the best you can, and good luck. BTW terriblis are one of the largest darts, might go with a somewhat smaller species...but not thumbnail size as they might be small enough to encourage a gecko taking a shot at one...and pumilo are so territorial that they've been known to stress out terriblis and other larger frogs so i'd avoid those... A luec or auratus, vittatus, ect... might be better. But i'd favor one that is suited for slightly higher temps then other darts, and remember that some morphs of the same species prefer lower temps then other morphs of the same species.

Dave

 

[asch803]

terribilis w/ L williamsi

I keep both, BUT not together. I think it's a bad idea for a few reasons. To begin with, terribilis do not tolerate warm temperatures at all. My williamsi tank is MUCH warmer than my terribilis tank. Also the williamsi tank has much more ventilation and therefore not nearly as high humidity. The terribilis really need high humidity - but not high temps. Terribilis are huge pigs and i'm not sure that they wouldn't try to eat the williamsi - that would really suck. Lastly, I would be concerned about having any sort of water feauture w/ the williamsi. It's my understanding that they can drown pretty easily. Why not set up 2 tanks? I really love both the terribilis (mine are orange) and the L williamsi and i'd suggest both to anyopne - just not together.

Andy

 

[Styx]

Dave, gottcha. The vampire crabs are 2-2.5" They are a true freshwater crab and tropical, they also have no larval stage (they hatch into tiny crabs from eggs). From what I've read from other keepers they have been kept successfully in vivs and such with small fish, geckos, crayfish, and frogs. They also stay on the lower levels of the tank around the water and don't climb or anything. Keepers have said they are not aggressive towards anything of similer size to them, but they will hunt small crickets. But they're pretty new also. They like the same type of temps and care as lygos, from what I've read.

Andy, yeah, see I think I could pull that off though with my size of a tank. But then again, I dunno if I want to attempt it at the same time for risk of them both. I HAVE two tanks, I'm just not sure which I want to go in what tank. Which is why I was asking if anyone maybe had any ideas on problems that could occure and such. One species will have a tank to itself, I'm just not sure which will go with what.

 

[Dendro_Dave]

If the crabs like lygod temps but stay at the low levels, im not sure they'd be a good choice as you'll probably want the upper parts of your tank pushing the mid 80's for the geckos usually, but the bottom part in the mid 70s usually, with an 80 max for the frogs.

 

[Styx]

Hm, also true, but the temps are also unclear, since they are so new. From what I've read they do well in anything from the 60s to high 80s. So 70s even would probably be just fine for them. They seem to thrive and breed in a wide variety of temps.

Still, maybe I should revisit this after the tank is set up? It'll be fully set up at least two months before I even buy any of these things. That way I can see what type of temp and humidity gradiant I get.

 

[Dendro_Dave]

From wikipedia...

"Tanzania has a tropical type of climate. In the highlands, temperatures range between 10˚C and 20˚C during cold and hot seasons respectively. The rest of the country has temperatures never falling lower than 20˚C. The hottest period spreads between November and February (25˚C - 31˚C) while the coldest period occurs between May and August (15˚C- 20˚C)."

These i believe are from the Easter part of the country in Kimboza forrest, below the mountains and not really in any parts that would be considered "highland"...could be mistaken though, so anyone in the know feel free to correct me.

So i'd say anyone keeping them in the 60's long term is not doin right by em....70s, eh better....but 75-80ish being better. Keep in mind those are average temps, and that there will be short term spikes above and below. Keeping them long term in lower or higher temps is likely to stress them and make them more suceptable to any parasites or pathogens or just general health problems.

Btw, i stumbled on this pdf concerning the forrest area if anyone is interested

http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_other/rmrs_2006_madoffe_s001.pdf

 

[Styx]

No, no, I was talking about the crabs, not the lygos.

 

[Dendro_Dave]

Ah ok.

 

[Ingo]

I do have very positive experiences with mixing lizards, with land crabs or hermit crabs.
Vampire crabs seem to be the right size and climatic needs should fit williamsi.
So if you can provide a water bassin and take care of haveing enough dead leaves in, I would give it a try.
Crabs even benefit from and eat the feces of the geckos thereby helping to keep the tank clean.


Ingo

 

[Styx]

Thanks for your input Ingo.

 

[lizardman123]

Now this interesting please keep us posted on how this goes. I would like to mix some frogs with the Lygo I am getting. Can you take a look at my enclosure it is right here.

 

[lizardman123]

I can make that basin smaller and use that for the crabs. Or I could keep them in that area and not let them out. Two different bio zones would be awesome.

 

[Sanskrit]

I'd just like to agree with other posters that mixing species is a poor idea. Just think... Some bats also enjoy the same temperatures and humidity levels that we humans do (hence why they're sometimes found inside of homes). To top it off we never use the ceiling! So it would seem to be a good idea to toss bats and humans into an enclosure together since they'll pretty much stay out of each other's way... I'll let you imagine being forced to share your home with bat droppings raining down on you :roll:.
Anyway regardless of my terrible example... My point is that most species prefer to segregate themselves from other species. By combining two species in an enclosure you're forcing them to encounter one another which causes stress that often times results in illness or ultimately death for reptiles and amphibians (or any small animal really). Those are only the reasons pertaining to stress and behavior without regard for waste production, food competition, or compromised temps/humidity. I just can't think of one thing about a mixed species enclosure that would benefit both inhabitants. The bottom line is that if you understand all of the above and still want to mix, no one can stop you.

 

[colorcham427]

hey all, if any1 on here has any or knows any1 with vampire crabs, please email me. care4urchameleon@live.com. please, email me not Private message, thank you!


~ Brian