Housing Williamsi with Rough Green Snakes?

[The_Greg]

I was told by a couple of sources that Williamsi should have no problem with romming with some rough greens, as the snakes are insectivores. (they are hatchlings anyways, so they wouldn't thing about gecko eating for a couple of years I would think)

What I'm concerned with/wondering is what you guys think. The snakes will get crickets, and the williamsi so far have gotten mostly yogurt/baby food and a little crickets.

The williamsi are doing very well right now, but the snakes aren't in there yet.

Thanks for your input





p.s. My male williamsi just ...chased?.... a female for about ten inches with his throat on the back of her neck.. was he maybe trying to get something going there or could that be aggression?

 

[Graham_s]

its never really a good idea to mix species, so I would think twice about putting the rough greens with s.williamsi, especially if the williamsi could be regarded as food, at any point in the life of the snakes.

 

[The_Greg]

I understand mixing species isn't the most kosher thing to do in the hobby, but I'm looking more for what specific concerns you guys think might arise or are there any foreseeable problems with this?

I do agree that its not optimal, by far, and chances are that the L. Williamsi will get their own habitat sooner or later, this thread is just meant to point out any reasons for getting it sooner.

 

[Graham_s]

I understand mixing species isn't the most kosher thing to do in the hobby, but I'm looking more for what specific concerns you guys think might arise or are there any foreseeable problems with this?

I do agree that its not optimal, by far, and chances are that the L. Williamsi will get their own habitat sooner or later, this thread is just meant to point out any reasons for getting it sooner.

well apart from what I've already mentioned, if the williamsi are doing fine at the moment, I think it would be unwise to put some snakes in with them, taking up some of their space and potentially causing them stress, especially as the chances of having CB rough greens are very low.

 

[The_Greg]

thank you for the response.. I suppose i should add that its a 33 gallon tank, and the snakes ARE CB. It took me ages to get some, but they are...

 

[Graham_s]

I still think its unwise to house them together, but thats just my 2 cents.

 

[Palor]

It is not unheard for a hungry rough green to snack on a small lizard or frog. I have read about them eating green anoles in a community setup, the anoles were simply to fast and ate most of the food and the green snake eventually just ate a lizard.

It is rare for a rough green to snack on a lizard but it does happen.

 

[zohariels]

More to the point, would you really want to risk it? Even if there's a 90% chance they would be okay, would it really be worth it to risk losing some because there was not adequate setup's? Personally I wouldn't, especially with williamsii since they're really not much bigger then a cricket, and as mentioned, things can get hungry.

 

[The_Greg]

well whats the smallest size tank for 1.2 williamsi?

 

[The_Greg]

er, i should say, what is a nice size tank for them?

I'm not looking to stress or suffocate them tank size wise.

 

[VICtort]

I am in the "don't do it" camp...Most interspecies terrariums I have seen have not worked out well in the long run. Yes, you probably could find a way to do it, maybe have it planted so heavily they are secure but then you would rarely see them... Green snakes are somewhat arboreal, so they might seek the same basking areas, and crawl over or interact unfavorably with the geckos, and I wouldn't be surprised if eventually a green snake might ingest a williams dwarf...

Until we collectively have Lygodactylus williamsi all figured out, breeding husbandry etc., I hope folks will work to solve that puzzle. Every specimen is valuable, and possibly irreplacable, and the wild population is said to be compromised. I wouldn't be surprised if a snake slithering around would make your geckos very nervous, and perhaps diminish quality of life and breeding potential.

If you insist on mixing species, I would do it with animals with totally different niches, i.e. a fossorial species in with an arboreal, or a diurnal in with a nocturnal, but I personally just would not be inclined to do it. Differing continents, both species likely wild caught , pretty good risk of parasite transmission etc. I really like Green Snakes however, and maybe you can set up vivariums for both separately? Also know that "pioneers" who do things differently from the rest of us sometimes make exciting break throughs...good luck, Vic

 

[Ingo]

To me, mixed species tanks are a fascinating challenge and one of the most interesting aspects of herpetoculture. Thus, I do have quite some of these setups, and some of them are running successfully since the early eighties. But still, they have to be set up very carefully and need a lot of knowledge and experience. Having said that and , I strongly recommend not to try the combination of species you suggested.
First of all -as already mentioned- rough green snakes are opportunistic feeders which do not hesitate much to prey on small lizards if they manage to catch them. Also, many lizards have an inborn fear of snakes, since these are frequent lizard predators, Thus the presence of the snakes may significantly stress the williamsi, even if they won´t try to prey on them. Second, and very importantly, the climatic needs for both species are quite different. Even though on first glimpse a rainforest dweller, williamsi needs a much dryer environment than the Opheodrys and also the temp requirements are different.
Last not least, williamsi are restricted to a very small habitat in the wild and with the current exportation rates, they will soon be threatened or extinct in the wild. Thus it is mandatory to put maximum stress on breeding success with this species-which -at least for the newbie- is easier to accomplish in single species tanks.

Cheers

Ingo

 

[Tariq Stark]

Last not least, williamsi are restricted to a very small habitat in the wild and with the current exportation rates, they will soon be threatened or extinct in the wild. Thus it is mandatory to put maximum stress on breeding success with this species-which -at least for the newbie- is easier to accomplish in single species tanks.

You are very right about that Ingo. It still surprises me a little bit that there are so many people keeping and breeding this species but that it doesn't reflect in the number of registrations in the L. williamsi studbook (small hint :roll.

On topic: I would not do it because rough green snakes are known to eat lizards. Furthermore, would L. williamsi be able to distinguish a "harmless" rough green snake from a other species of snake that does eat lizards (an interesting question but I don't think you should try this at home).

Best of luck!

Tariq

 

[The_Greg]

well I have made up my mind about separating them, but i'm delighted to hear such knoledgeable talk on the subject and I hope this topic may help people in the future if they are considering similar setups.


Its funny how I only discovered L. Williamsi when researching things to co-exist with the aestivus, but even though I'm not going to do that in the end i'm so glad to have found the electric blue gecko because its a gorgeous, entertaining, wonderful species!

 

[zohariels]

Probably the most minimum size that would work is a 12x12x18, any smaller then that and they' d be pretty cramped since they are such an active species. Good luck!

 

[kylehca]

no no no

Can I just add my two cents by saying that would be a horrible idea to add a snake species in with the lygodactylus williamsii, I am sure they would be caused stress and it would be terrible to be confined in a terrarium with them. I am glad to hear that you have changed your mind.