(L. Williamsi) Please help, very worried!

[bluelygo]

Has my female suffered a prolapse?

In my last thread I was concerned about whether my 'female' was actually a male. I couldn't get any proper photos to show you as she never walks on the glass when I'm watching. So tonight when I was putting some fruit flies in, I finally managed to get some by coaxing her into a small transparent type food box. So I upturned the box to take said photos and found this...

Looks like a bloody area protruding from her! Really don't know what to do. If it is a prolapse I guess this explains her subdued behaviour and lack of activity in comparison to the male, which was originally leading me to think she was a juvi male.

1. Is 'she' actually a female?

2. Has she suffered a prolapse and is there anything I can do to save her if she has?

 

[lickyoureyeballs]

Any chance you can crop and make the area larger so we can see what's going on a little bit better?

 

[lemniscate]

bloody l.williamsi

I suggest you GET HER TO THE VET at first possible opportunity. No hesitation. There`s very little leeway where creatures this small are concerned. You`re obviously concerned for her, your promise to them when you get them is to do the best you can for them.. whatever happens. The poor little beast needs serious, professional, veterinary assistance now and it`s up to you to see that she gets it.
There is a site: ReptileVets.co.uk - Find Local Reptile Vets. you enter your postcode & find the nearest. Or, if you explain over the phone to your nearest vet, they may have someone specialising.
Time to get it sorted. Now.. or, at very least, first thing in the morning.

 

[bluelygo]

I will be doing, I already have the number for my nearest specialist and will be calling them in the morning, would call now but I can't at 11pm. I'm well aware of my duties and intend to do everything I can for her.

My concern is that due to her size and how fragile she is I can't see how they can help her without seriously injuring her in the process as she won't stay still (extremely fast) and you can't restrain her for obvious reasons. I really don't know what they can do for her, I can only wait until the morning and see I guess. Was just wondering if anyone could advise as to whether they think this IS a prolapse, and offer me some preliminary advice before I can get her seen to. It's very upsetting, not had them for long but grown very attached to these two beautiful little lizards. Thankyou for commenting, it's appreciated

@lick your eyeballs - I will try and do that now, sorry for the quality of the pictures, she is very difficult to photograph

 

[bluelygo]

I'm quite good with photoshop but due to the quality of the photos this is the best I can do I'm afraid...

 

[lemniscate]

L.williamsi needs the vet.

I`m sorry if I was too abrupt just now in my reply. Upsetting photos.
You ARE obviously concerned about her. I have two of these delightful little geckos. If one of mine appeared like this.. I`d get it to the vets first thing.. no question.
I am a novice with these, but that looks like an actual wound. Whatever the cause, like birds they`ve got very little blood, cannot afford to lose much at all without serious consequences.. and your little one will need help fighting off INFECTION.
If one of these experts comes on and says different, fair enough, but here and now I don`t think I`d start fussing with her. Just peace & quiet somewhere warm and off to the vets in the morning.
My Best Wishes to you.. both.

 

[lickyoureyeballs]

Put her on paper towels and keep her separate from your other geckos, perhaps in a kritter keeper. Mist her lightly, keep her warm until you are able to get her to the vet.

 

[bluelygo]

It's OK, I can see you were just trying to help, thank you for your kind comment.

Infection is another thing I'm worried about, but unlike larger, less delicate lizards I am unable to bathe/clean the wound with any solution.

I really don't think it is a wound sustained from fighting or something though, based on the location of the problem and the nature of it (protruding rather than open wound) it would seem to be more consistent with a cloacal prolapse, but I am also no expert.

 

[bluelygo]

She is currently back in the enclosure and sleeping on a plant high up near the top. I would be wary of moving her from here, and my only option would be to place her in a small clear food box (livefood box) lined with paper towel and placed inside the enclosure. I don't have another ventilated enclosure of the type they are currently in, and I would be unable to place a heat lamp on the top of a cricket keeper due to the temp generated melting the plastic top so that isn't an option either unfortunately. Temps here in North West England are very low.

Would you suggest doing the above? Or leaving her where she is now?

 

[lemniscate]

Where to put poorly lygo??

I found your other thread. I see you have a male as well. Where is he?? Is he bothering her?? Showing too much curiosity??
A super clean live food ventilated box with a paper towel in their enclosure sounds good.. then in the morning she`d be ready to go.
Alternatively, you could put the male in a box to make sure he doesn`t bother her in the night.
Excellent, but appalling photo. I`ve no idea, but the hole looks like a burst absess hole. Whatever it is, with a bit of help, creatures have great healing capabilities. As long as it`s not major structural damage of that complicated area.
When one of mine escaped I caught him with my hand flat over the top of him, then squeezed his skin very slightly between my fingers to hold him.. and lift him back in.
Usually use a small clear plastic box over the top and a small stiff plastic sheet slid underneath.
Have you got one of those delicates laundry bags of mesh?? Or one of those collaspible sprung mesh laundry/toy boxes. Always thought they`d be good for examining geckos, you can see through them, and get your hands in, but if they escape it`s only into the bag/mesh box thing.
All the Best.
Will you post what happens, please?? Will be thinking of you. Good Luck.

 

[bluelygo]

Nope, if anything they seem to avoid each other. Although, I have witnessed them basking together on the same piece of bamboo for prolonged periods of time with no consequences. He doesn't bother her atall tbh. At night he sleeps in the hollowed area of a large diameter bamboo cane, and she lies hidden between leaves on a hanging plant which drapes from the top of the enclosure.

I will update this thread with what happens next, thankyou for your reply.

 

[Matt K]

Most "vets" tend to kill reptiles and taking one to a vet is normally a bad idea. If you keep reptiles, the various disease protocols are fairly brief and easy to learn so in effect you can be the doctor to your own animals. There is nothing they can do that you can't. Comparing info with other herp keepers can teach you everything you need to know too.

 

[lemniscate]

Tamodine for wounds in lygo

Hi, bluelygo,
I just showed your best photo to the reptile expert in my local reptile shop.
He thinks it`s probably BUG DAMAGE!! Either mites or crickets or mealworms have found a slight wound or were attracted by excreta to the area and have feasted. Appalling thought.
The mites look like tiny red pinhead-sized spots. (My Lygos had them when they arrived. Got rid of them with Mite OFF)
He suggests setting up a SUPER CLEAN or NEW faunarium* with heat mat or light for heat. (*Wilkinsons do one for £5. Or reptile shop £8/9) Then clean girlie`s wound with TAMODINE, available at reptile shop, which is an iodine based antiseptic.. on a Q-tip. He reckons this is what the vet will do. Whoever does it it will be tricky because of her size. Then move her into the clean faunarium. Use de-mineralised water to mist.
Move the male into somewhere else and completely break down & super clean their vivarium and everything in it.
If mites spotted treat before returning both to big viv. Mite Off is not a pesticide, rather shrivels the mites dry.
He doesn`t see any reason, from the photo, why she should be euthanased. Should, hopefully, heal OK.
Hope this helps.

 

[bluelygo]

Thanks again for the input.

@Matt K - This is why I'm worried about taking her to a vet. Although the vet I know of (use for faecal samples etc.) is a reptile specialist, and when I spoke with them this morning they assured me they could treat her even with the size/speed/fragility issues I am still not confident about it as I don't really see how they could give any proper treatment without harming her. It's not like she's a bearded dragon or anything, she would be extremely difficult to treat I would have thought, and they refuse to give me any info about what they would do over the phone, they insist I would need a consultation before they would comment. I may try to treat her myself, apparently bathing the wound in sugar water helps, Im just trying to figure out a way I could do this.

@lemniscate - She doesn't suffer from mites so that wouldn't be an issue. HOWEVER, I do feed them on a varied diet and I guess it's a possibility that the small crickets I feed could have caused some damage, it's plausible I guess. I think I will move her into a faunarium as you suggested so I can monitor her for a while, hopefully the problem will be resolved naturally, though I will be keeping a close eye on her progress.

Fingers crossed for a good recovery

 

[lemniscate]

?? sugar water for wounds??

I may try to treat her myself, apparently bathing the wound in sugar water helps, Im just trying to figure out a way I could do this.
Fingers crossed for a good recovery. bluelygo
I never heard of using sugar water, but then, I know nothing. Salt water is used to treat wounds in mammals & birds. About a teaspoonful in a pint of warm water. That Tamodine looked good.
My hemidactylus sp. that I found in the house last year had to survive my steepest learning curve. One of the things was finding many uneaten adult crickets in her vivarium the first time I cleaned it out. They`d been hiding in the greenery and bark pieces. I check more regularly now and I don`t know if it`s the done thing or not, but now I put a little dish of bug grub in, so that if any do survive, at least they won`t bother her.
I should think getting her back into that container, then pouring just a half inch liquid in and tipping it around would work.
I`ll leave you to it. All the Best.

 

[Matt K]

It is highly unlikely to be bug damage ad Lygo's are not sessile animals and react when provoked by small insects- particularly to the extent of that damage.

You can assume the simplest causes first and work your way back. Most likely is a fungal infection from passing something sharp (undigestable piece of substrate, bark, plastic, etc.) that damaged soft tissues on the "way out".

First thing I would try is using a cotton swab to apply a drop(s) of Betadine or other clinical iodine solution directly. It is strong but if you let it sit 15 minutes to a hour and then bathe it it will be fine. Sometimes an opthalmic antibiotic or antifungal ointment can be very helpful for wounds as well.

Bathing occurs by a small tub (say, 10 to 20 cm or so wide) with a lid. Put water in the tub that looks just barely deep enough to cover the body of the gecko. If you tub is tall enough for the gecko to get out of the water and stay out, then fill the tub with loose wet paper towels, pop it in there and close the lid. The water temp should be the same as the enclosure. You might even consider wrapping the gecko is a VERY loose wet paper towel to put in the tub with the rest. Note: you may need to poke a few holes in the upper sides or top of the tub you choose.

Let the gecko soak for a couple hours, then remove and replace to the enclosure. This may need to be repeated daily or every other day until gone.

One thing I have done in the past is also use nitrofurizone or other anti-fungal medication that comes in a tablet form used for aquariums. Dissolve one tablet in a half-liter of water and use that to soak in or (with lizards that drink from a water dish) water them with so that it is ingested. Repeat every other day until cured. If the aquarium medication is a liquid and not a tablet, the use however much indicated for 10 gallons of water for the half liter of water you are preparing.

Stay away from salt and sugar as neither is good for treating a wound on a reptile. Salt damages the tissues trying to heal around the wound and sugar will invariably feed the bacteria infecting the would making it worse.

The correct temperatures, clean water, food as often as they will eat it, and medications will clear up damage in good order. I have rehabilitated quite a few "damaged goods" from pet shops and injured wildlife (turtles, lizards, birds, snakes, etc.) and rarely lost anything. From my personal experience, vets tend to treat reptiles like mammals for the most part with can work, but normally does not get the results you expect for the money and/or death of the reptile.

Disclaimer: ....Just my 2 cents worth. All this info is based on my personal experiences and years of general husbandry knowledge and has not been obtained from a specialized vet or school of medicine. I make no guarantees as to the current or outcoming health of any animal(s) treated with these methods.....

 

[Airedale]

I've heard of sugar and sugar water being used in prolapses, but mostly on larger boas and snakes. They basically make a paste and smear it on the prolapse but I wouldn't try it with these little ones. Warm baths usually help things, and I don't think it can hurt. Sterile environment, and no f***ing crickets. ;-)Stupid lizard chewing little bastards. I hate them a lot in case you haven't noticed. ;-) Keep us posted on her. I really hope things work out.

P.S.: Pardon my language.

 

[coyoteluver]

It does look like a prolapse to me. I have rescued leopard geckos with this problem.
I used this information I found and was successful in getting the prolapse back into the animals with the water/sugar bath. Hopefully this helps you and may give you some reasons for why this happened to your gecko.

If the gecko is constipated, either due to dehydration, impaction due to a foreign object, or from being heavily parasitized, the strain of trying to defecate may result in either a section of the colon or cloacal tissue, or one or both hemipenes, being everted through the vent. Severe parasite infestation and dystocia may also result in prolapsed tissue. In severe cases, or if the animal is already weakened by the underlying condition, he or she may not be able to retract the tissue. If left outside the body, it may become contaminated with feces, urates, or food, or other matter, and will start to dry out. If not cleaned and replaced, the tissue will die and require amputation.

You can try soaking the gecko in a cool bath to which sugar has been added. Heavy concentrations of sugar in the water will act to draw out the fluids engorging the swollen everted tissue; this may reduce it enough to be inverted by the lizard. The tissue may be rinsed with fresh water and Betadine, and carefully pushed back in with a gloved finger lubricated with KY Jelly (the type without the spermicde). Extreme care must be taken in doing this as, if the colon contains fecal matter and the colon tissue is pierced in the attempt to replace it, severe, even fatal contamination and injury may result. If the soaking does not work within an hour, and you do not wish to attempt manual replacement, the gecko should be placed on a damp towel and taken to the vet as quickly as possible.

Some lizards may repeatedly prolapse. In these instances, you must take your gecko to the veterinarian. If the prolapse is a hemipene, it may safely be amputated. If only one is amputated, the lizard may still be able to breed. Suturing may be required to try to prevent the colon or cloacal tissue from prolapsing again. If it does continue to happen, however, surgery may be necessary to suture the colon to the wall of the coelomic cavity. Cloacal pexy (fixation, i.e, suturing in place) or oviduct removal may also be recommended in these cases.

 

[bluelygo]

Can I just say a BIG thank you to everyone who posted.

Introducing...

Check this out...

 

[bluelygo]

I think she may have mites after all! See the photos...