Uroplatus fimbriatus or...

[m.roesch]

Hi,

I keep 6.7 Uroplatus fimbriatus.
Four pair of this are shown the normal fimbriatus eye colour.
Also their body colour shows a lot of differents between each animal.

The other 2.3 do have lighter, whiter eyes. They all have quiet the same body colour, mals and females.

So my question is, are they fimbriatus too? other locality? or may they are giganteus?

My Pairs are all still not adult, so i can not say the total lengh they will get.

But look at this eye pic of one of the "cf.fimbriatus".
The pic is a day pic, without any flash. Just out od cam.

What dou you think about it?

Regards,
Markus

 

[D.B.Johnson]

Hi Markus,

Did you get all of your 'lighter eyed' ones from the same source? I think some variation in eye color is normal for fimbriatus, but also I have seen one in particular that I remember had greyish eyes and looked very unique compared to other fimbriatus color/patterns I have seen. It didn't look like the giganteus pics I have seen either. Maybe you have some other pictures sof their bodies?

Doug

 

[Luperosaurus]

Little bit difficult to be sure by 100% but this specimen looking like U.fimbriatus for me. For sure I need more pictures of them to see eye, snout and body pattern/

 

[luevelvet]

It is questionable whether U. giganteus is actually a different species than U. fimbriatus but IMHO, they're all fimbriatus. We have a female that is exceptional larger than the others and has lighter eyes along with a faded yet noticeable head pattern that is one of the indicators for U. giganteus. She's mated with a typical fimbriatus male and has produced good eggs, so I'm pretty sure shes a fimbriatus.

IMHO, they're all fimbriatus, just from different collection areas.

Luis

 

[Luperosaurus]

http://www.zsm.mwn.de/her/pdf/Glaw_et_al_2006_Uroplatus_giganteus_small.pdf

 

[Uroplatus]

Yes, photos of body pattern would be interesting.

 

[m.roesch]

Hi,

Thank you all for the answers.

I will try to get good pics of their bodys
to show them to you.

I don't know what they are, but it doesn't
matter if they are "only" fimbriatus.
They are absolutly great and special.

Hope i will have soon eggs of them, because
i'm very excited if the hatchlings have also this
white eyes.

Regards,
Markus

 

[luevelvet]

Luperosaurus,

Continental speciation in the tropics: contrasting
biogeographic patterns of divergence in the Uroplatus
leaf-tailed gecko radiation of Madagascar

"...we consider the recent description of Uroplatus
giganteus by Glaw et al. (2006) based on four specimens
from Montagne d’Ambre, as premature because of the
limited sampling of U. fimbriatus localities that were included
in that description. When we include U. ‘giganteus’
cyt b data from Greenbaum et al. (2007) (results not shown),
or consider our own Montagne d’Ambre U. fimbriatus (1) as
‘giganteus’, this renders U. fimbriatus paraphyletic, with the
‘giganteus’ samples falling within a northern clade of
U. fimbriatus (Fig. 3). Unfortunately, the U. ‘giganteus’
diagnostic morphological characters do not accurately diagnose
the other specimens from this northern clade; and there
is a possibility that this clade will include specimens from the
U. fimbriatus neotype locality, Nosy Mangabe (see Bauer &
Russell, 1989)..."

There is no doubt that "U. giganteus" is different than the typically wide ranged fimbriatus, but a new species is questionable.

Luis

 

[postskunk]

great link Luis, thanks for posting it
-Matt

 

[Luperosaurus]

Luis

"There is no doubt that "U. giganteus" is different than the typically wide ranged fimbriatus, but a new species is questionable."


Till 1990 all thought that U.henkeli is color morph of U.fimbriatus. Today we have U.henkeli as valid species. Same was with U.phantasticus - many very good scientists thought that they was long tail form of U.ebenaui, but now we have three, maybe four species in this group. U.alluaudi looking very same with U.pietschmanni and U.malahelo with U.guentheri but they also are different species.

 

[luevelvet]

While it's true that these species have been previously misidentified or incorrectly described, we've come a long way since then and the physiological differences (in all stages of their life) negate many previous misidentifications. Let's not forget, they are still describing a handful of new species (discussed in the above mentioned article) that are very similar U. henkeli but differ in their DNA analysis; enough so that they are considered their own species, just not yet officially described.

The most important point to take away from the article is that Uroplatus are very adept at extreme variation in morphology so using physical indicators to differentiate species is becoming less and less relevant in the genus than ever before.

It reminds me of the "locale" situation with Panther chameleons.

Great discussion!

Luis

Luis

"There is no doubt that "U. giganteus" is different than the typically wide ranged fimbriatus, but a new species is questionable."


Till 1990 all thought that U.henkeli is color morph of U.fimbriatus. Today we have U.henkeli as valid species. Same was with U.phantasticus - many very good scientists thought that they was long tail form of U.ebenaui, but now we have three, maybe four species in this group. U.alluaudi looking very same with U.pietschmanni and U.malahelo with U.guentheri but they also are different species.

 

[Luperosaurus]

I'm sure that in the short future few new species and subspecies of this geckos will be described. And as I think it will be mainland form of U. cf.henkeli from Tsingy de L' Ankarana, U.cf.alluaudi from NE part of island U.cf.sikorae from Montagne d' Ambre, long tail U.cf.ebenaui and maybe fimbriatus look small form also from Montagne d'Ambre.
Will see...