Tokay Morphs...

[Riverside Reptiles]

Since we seem to have quite a few people here on GU now that are working with Tokay morphs, I thought I'd start a thread that's specifically for teaming up to figure out how these genetics are working out. So, if you're working with tokay morphs, please start out by letting us know what you have and posting up some pics as well if you can. Also, many of the morphs change progressively from looking normal at hatching time into various other colors/patterns as they grow. So it would be fun if you would post pics of your babies as they change. Let's work together together to start unraveling the mystique behind some of these genetics! I'll be posting up pics of my tokays hopefully later today if time allows. But please feel free to go ahead and start sharing yours right away. No need to wait for me
Ethan

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

These are pics of my Calico (melanistic) x Calico (blue) juvies. Quite the diverse looking group so far. They're still all going through changes. So I'll keep posting pics as they progress towards adulthood.

juvie #1:

juvie #2:

juvie#3:

juvie#4


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This is my Wild Caught green male:

These pics are all pretty representative of what they look like the majority of the time. As with all tokay, their colors can be variable throughout the day.

 

[Kita]

I'm very excited to get this project moving:

Wild caught male Melanistic Blue Granite minimal Pied, Black Frost (top darkest, bottom lightest colors)

Wild caught female Blue Granite, Rain (probably gets darker than top, but lighest colors on bottom)

Wild caught female (morph still under debate) Blue Ghost or Blue Granite Peach Head minimal Pied or Blue minimal Calico, Overcast (have not seen darkest colors)

Don't have a male for this girl yet. Wild caught High Orange female, Tsunami (light colors only)

 

[MauricesExoticPets]

Very nice group of Tokay Geckos you have there Kita.

Ethan, I like the slate walls in that enclosure.

Maurice Pudlo

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

@ Kita...my juvie #2 currently looks a lot like your Tsunami.

@ Maurice...thanks, but those are actually not really slate. They're fake slate "peel and stick" vinyl floor tiles from Home Depot! They make for great background in vivs.

 

[MauricesExoticPets]

You had me fooled, I figured you were a Master Stone Mason there for a minute.

Maurice Pudlo

 

[Kita]

Thanks Maurice!

It's interesting to see all the different directions your CalicoxCalico kids are going, Ethan. I know they all came from Ophidiophile, but are they siblings with both parents the same? I'm hoping to find a high red or higher orange male for Tsunami. And I'm hoping to have a Leucistic to either breed with Black Frost or both of his girls, whichever sex I end up with.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

You had me fooled, I figured you were a Master Stone Mason there for a minute.

Maurice Pudlo

I actually do use a lot of real slate in my vivs too. Not on the walls so much as I do for hides, decoration, floors, etc. I bought a whole pallet of natural slate tile on clearance at Home Depot a few years ago and still haven't gotten around to putting it down on the floor of the sun room as intended. So, with like 100 boxes of it sitting in my garage, it makes for an easy choice in viv decor.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Thanks Maurice!

It's interesting to see all the different directions your CalicoxCalico kids are going, Ethan. I know they all came from Ophidiophile, but are they siblings with both parents the same? I'm hoping to find a high red or higher orange male for Tsunami. And I'm hoping to have a Leucistic to either breed with Black Frost or both of his girls, whichever sex I end up with.

Yeah, all of the calico x calico juvies came from the same parents. You would never know it by looking at them though. And none of them look like either of the parents. Not yet anyways. We'll have to see what the future brings for them.

 

[Ophidiophile]

Here's a few. I haven't taken pictures of my tokays in a while so a lot of these are soon after I got the animals. That is to say, formerly skinny animals are now big and fat!

First up the Calicos (which many have seen already - these 2 are the parents of Ethan's calico x calico progeny):

Male:

Female:

Next up is a leucistic female:

The Leucy female has been producing (4 clutches now) with this strange male whose morph I call "Dilute" - he varies from light powder blue to almost white:

This an Olive Patternless (Blue Headed) Male:

Orange Caramel Albino Female:

Yellow Caramel Albino Female:

That's it for now, more to come when I find a spare minute!

 

[Aquira]

Some very gorgeous animals in this thread.
Crazy how those calico x calico babies are turning out so different.
Those blue granites are delicious, Kita.
I love that "Dilute" male a lot for some reason.

 

[Ophidiophile]

Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

I just wanted to chime in again to remind people that when we're talking about morphs and their characteristics, it is important to remember that Tokays not only change radically from youth to adulthood but keep undergoing changes throughout life.

As an example, the photo of my adult "Blue Calico" was taken over a year ago.
Just as a reminder, here's what he looked like (and this is what he looked like also when I got him approximately two years ago):

However, starting about two or three months ago, he started looking like this:

This is not just a day/night or stressed/unstressed thing. This is what he looks like now all the time!

By contrast, some of you may remember a black granite on black male Tokay that I got in a while back. I subsequently sold him to a friend locally and he has now turned blue.

I have also had a pure white leucistic that developed black spots on her back and have spoken to other keepers who've seen the same thing happen with leucistics.

The more I learn about Tokays, the weirder and more interesting they turn out to be!

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

David, that's CRAZY how much he changed!!! Now I'm really excited to see what happens with these calico x calico babies over time. I think that this is one of the reasons you don't see a lot of people talking about tokay genetics...they just haven't been able to figure them out. I do remember that black male. I'm kind of sad to hear that he turned blue as he was a beautiful and unique looking animal. But I'd be curious to see pics of him after the change if you can get some.

So what tokay morphs (if any) are actually truly simple recessive and actually breed true all the time? I've heard that the patternless morph breeds true. And I've heard the same about the green morph. But I've certainly seen some animals that have turned out more green than others. And I'm still wondering if they are truly simple recessive (ie do the hets really reproduce the morph with the same statistical odds as every other recessive morph)? Any input from anyone on these questions?

 

[MauricesExoticPets]

I think a weeding out process needs to be done, it may well be that there are few tokay geckos that are het free from any cluster mess of potential morphs. Think mouse genetics, take an asperin or 20, then try again, mice are a mess when it come to their zillions of morphs that interact with each other. It's enough to drive a man to drinking, ok I already drink, but thats not the point.

What effects do sexual maturity have on coloration, I suspect in a normal tokay we are less able to see the slight difference they use to identify themselves as sexualy mature, but it should be there, in morphs the change is visible to us as a drastic color shift mainly because we have removed the one or more colors that cloud our ability to see the change.

I don't have a clue what I'm talking about here just tossing out ideas to get the conversation going. Just think of my part as idea generator, not as informative, I'm pretty sure I have very little to offer in that department regarding tokay morphs.

Maurice Pudlo

 

[Ophidiophile]

So what tokay morphs (if any) are actually truly simple recessive and actually breed true all the time?

Apart from the ones you mention Ethan, I've heard that the albinos - both T+ "caramels" and "T-" are simple recessives that breed true. I have no experience with this - it's just what I've been told. Hopefully I'll have some first-hand experience with the T+ variety really soon :biggrin:

 

[Ophidiophile]

I do remember that black male. I'm kind of sad to hear that he turned blue as he was a beautiful and unique looking animal. But I'd be curious to see pics of him after the change if you can get some.

So here he is black:

And here he is blue:

 

[Kita]

Oh I remember him! I wanted to buy him, but you said a friend had him on breeder loan! What kind of girls do you have him with and when are you expecting babies? I'd like to work with animals that lack all the red/orange/yellow that so many have, including the greens since calicos with green get the yellowish edging along their white.

I love that boy!

 

[PrettyInInk]

Wow! I had no idea Tokay Geckos had so many morphs. All of these guys are BEAUTIFUL... Here are my Tokays. Don't know morphs or anything but they do look way different from one another.

This is "Oscar"

and "Missy"

I'm pretty sure they are both female but am not totally sure... Missy is a lot bigger and brighter than Oscar. She also had more of a stockier head than Oscar.

 

[Ophidiophile]

Oh I remember him! I wanted to buy him, but you said a friend had him on breeder loan! What kind of girls do you have him with and when are you expecting babies?
I love that boy!

He's still with my friend. And stupidly, I told him he could keep him indefinitely. I think he has him in with just a normal female. I know he's gotten eggs but has been pretty unsuccessful at hatching anything. I should definitely get him back - he's a pretty unique tokay!

 

[Aquira]

What a very lovely tokay. I remember seeing that black male for sale and it made me drool. X)
The blue version of him still looks pretty sweet though.