help new caledonian vivarium advice

millerfridge

New member
i have my heart set on a big exo terra tank i think its something like 36 inches wide 17 deep and 24 tall, i am planning on having lots of live plants in there and branches and a little fogger for the exo terra waterfall, would the tank be big enough to house a crested gecko and either a gargoyle or a mossy? ive read people's posts on the new caledonian gecko's and that they have been successfully housed together because of the same needs and enviroment also can anyone offer any adivce to what i need or should have in the vivarium. thanks :)

oops just realised where i posted it im a noob with this forum crap :(
 

rhachic

New member
if mossy you mean chahoua, then yes. Gargoyles are tougher though, many (especially females) are extremely aggressive and will not hesitate to eat a crested's tail. If it's your first crested gecko you may want to hold off on mixing species until you are more experienced as a keeper. It requires a lot more attention and care to have multi species in a vivarium.
 

millerfridge

New member
yeh it will be my first crestie i just wanted a mix because it would be like having a slice of nature in my bedroom which would just be amazing. i guess ill get a couple of cresties or something :)
 

Hardknox

New member
I realize this is a kind of old thread but it a topic I have been looking into. In regard to the response it is true that female gargs absolutely will eat crested and other garg tails ESPECIALLY if a male of either species is present and breeding is a possibility. Unlike cresteds, garg tails grow back and grow back rather quickly. Gargs are a bit chubbier and as a result use up more fatty stores in producing babies. Female gargs when mating with a male will eat the males tail and then a few weeks later when it has grown back will do so again. The point that I am getting at is this act really should not be confused with an act of aggression. It is just all the female knows is she should store up fat for breeding and she is supposed to eat the tail of her mating partner in order to do so.
An interesting analogue would be Sigfried and Roy's tiger incident. The tiger was not trying to hurt Roy, in fact the tiger was protecting him because he fell and the tigers instinct was to pick him up by the neck and move him to cover.
So ultimately my conclusion is you have to remember that these are wild animals and even with similar sizes, temperatures, humidity, nutrition and even compatible breeding (hybrids) the way they interact within their species maybe different. The garg will treat the cresteds as another garg and not reason that it is a crested and must be treated differently. All that being said, if you have tailess crested geckos nothing that I know about gargs, cresteds, or chahouas would suggest this would be a problem (no multiple males not even a male crested with a male garg or male chahoua). Keep a very close eye on them though, looking for marks of rough housing or fighting both within and between the species (things that have to be watched for even in a pure crested colony) and try not to be too disappointed if you end up having to separate them by glass and not just space.
 

Hardknox

New member
I would also add that my girlfriend and I have a dream when we buy a house that we have discussed of building a small greenhouse (6 ft x 10 ft x 8 ft or so) and growing new Caledonian plants in there with gargs, crested, chahoua and maybe one of two of the others (probably not leachies, im afraid they are just too much bigger) to create a full mini habitat. In preparation for this, in my spare time outside of my real doctoral research I have been doing some reading on the New Caledonian ecosystem as well as keeping a close eye on reports from other hobbyist on their experiments with interspecies cohabitation. SO, I would be very interested to know if you followed through with this and what kind of success you have had.

EDIT: I just noticed the third post and saw you decided to go with just cresteds, has anybody else done any experimentation with this type of set up?
 

rhachic

New member
In regard to the response it is true that female gargs absolutely will eat crested and other garg tails ESPECIALLY if a male of either species is present and breeding is a possibility. Unlike cresteds, garg tails grow back and grow back rather quickly. Gargs are a bit chubbier and as a result use up more fatty stores in producing babies. Female gargs when mating with a male will eat the males tail and then a few weeks later when it has grown back will do so again. The point that I am getting at is this act really should not be confused with an act of aggression. It is just all the female knows is she should store up fat for breeding and she is supposed to eat the tail of her mating partner in order to do so.
The garg will treat the cresteds as another garg and not reason that it is a crested and must be treated differently. All that being said, if you have tailess crested geckos nothing that I know about gargs, cresteds, or chahouas would suggest this would be a problem (no multiple males not even a male crested with a male garg or male chahoua).

I'm interested to know how you came to these conclusions? Do you actually own any rhacodactylus or did you read this in a study somewhere?

In my experience gargoyles are cannibalistic and males and females will consume each others tails both during breeding and at random if housed together. In fact I currently have a pair together now that have been together since last fall. My male still has his original tail and my female has regenerated her tail at least 2x due to the male biting it off. Gargoyles are extremely opportunistic and I have had them eat each others tails, frogs, crested geckos (yes, the whole animal), and siblings. I don't believe it has anything to do with the female "knowing she needs to store fat to breed" but more that an opportunity to snatch a meal has presented itself (whether this is a males tail, other females tail, or other animal that will fit in it's mouth doesn't matter). I have successfully kept more docile gargoyles of each sex with adult male chahoua and large adult male cresteds. I did attempt a 6 foot tall 6 foot wide 2 foot deep "New Caledonian" vivarium (similar to your dream project) with a total of 1.5 cresteds, 1.1 chahoua, and 1.2 gargoyles for a duration of 3 years. In that time I only ever had issues with one overly aggressive male crested gecko who simply chased everyone and was replaced with a more docile male and all of the gargoyles. The male gargoyle was found finishing off a green tree frog he'd caught in the tank, one of the females was caught with the stomach of an adult female crested gecko in her mouth (no confusion on tail or species there), and another female was caught persistently chasing and attacking both the other gargoyles and a female crested who frequently visited the lower section of the tank. Due to these issues I determined only the most docile of gargoyles or individuals which were much smaller than their cage mates of any species should even be attempted together. After this realization and change to the inhabitance my multi-species problems went away.
Also, I believe they are quite aware that cresteds and chahouas are in fact NOT the same species. If gargoyles thought other species were also gargoyles they would constantly hybridize. I never saw my gargoyles pursue the opposite sex of any of the other species I kept with them. In my experience rhacodactylus geckos rely heavily on scent, these scents are most likely different depending on species. Granted there are situations where hybridization has occurred in captivity, but there are very few with gargoyles in particular. I believe it has more to do with individuals who are for one reason or another less choosy about their partner and simply pursue any other gecko they can catch to mate with. Also, naturally gargoyles, chahouas, and cresteds typically inhabit different niche areas in the wild. Gargoyles tend to stay lower to the ground and are less arboreal than cresteds and chahouas. Chahouas appear to prefer limbs and travel along branches, and cresteds tend to stay near the ends where there are leaves and branches they can leap to easily.
I have been keeping and breeding rhacs. for 10 years and am no scientist but am extremely observant with the animals I keep. It is also noted in many books regarding rhacodactylus that young gargoyles in particular are cannibalistic and will in fact eat their siblings, not just their tails, and not just adult breeding females.
 

Hardknox

New member
I am in a hurry and you seem a bit irritated in your post (sorry if I am misreading that) and I am not interested in getting in an anecdote based argument. I do keep rhacs, I have a crested colony. I have not kept gargs myself but I have seen a garg colony before. I know that at least once person has hybridized a garg with a crested as well as several instances of successful hybrids between chahous and cresteds. Feel free to take your time and google it, you should be able to find the instances I am talking about. Also the information on gargs about tails comes from a garg breeder I trust and that has been his experience. There are many bloodlines within the species and I am sure they are linked to varying degrees of behavior.

Not sure where you got your gargs from but it sounds like you had some particularly aggressive gargs or my guy had particularly docile ones. Also knowing the difference between two species does not mean an animal knows how to treat that species. The garg can tell the crested is not a garg but it only knows how to treat gargs and thus it gets treated as one. I stated that pretty clearly before. Also in your enclosure you have multiple males, 1 of each species. That does not register as a very good idea if you are trying to avoid conflicts.

I am going to reemphasize this point since it got misunderstood the first time and I am not going to post on this thread again most likely. I said the gargoyle treats the crested as gargoyle not that it thinks it is one. I treat all my college students as intelligent adults, though I rarely believe they are and they frequently act as though their tails have been bitten off.

Also all I was really saying in my statement is often times common behavior of many animals is highly misunderstood and misinterpreted (reference tiger story) and I was merely suggesting based on my experience and the experience of one of my information sources perhaps the garg behavior was being misunderstood as well.
 
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