Urgent! (Last one urgent, I promise) Gecko breeding

[hetenyid]

Hi!

My two phelsuma lineata lineata just got to know each other (only visual contact was allowed, for 2 days until now)

They are now a bit chasing each other, I do'nt know wether the male (the bigger one of course) wants to hurt the female or to mate.

The male is trying to catch her at the back/neck, and the female keeps fleeing. But once she fled, she mostly turns back and gets closer to the male. Also, the male is very bright, colorful, and the female is brownish, the way she used to be when not really satisfied (she was darker when scared, I think).
And when "fighting", they emit a rattling sound.

I attached a photo.
You can view it here

Is all this ok? Are they ok "for each other"? Or should I separate them because one will stress out/kill the other?

Thanks very much!!

 

[mkschaefer]

I cannot view the photo, I don't think the link is working. How large is your enclosure? Is it densely planted? Are you sure you have a male and female?

What was the order of introduction into the enclosure?

 

[hetenyid]

Thanks for the reply!

I am attaching the pic again.
Pics from yesterday
1&2: a pic when the female approaches the male




3: a pic with the male "harrassing" the female


So,
- the enclosure is about 18x12x12 in the inside (18x18x12 on the outside, but it has a thick substrate layer)
- the female is about 3 3/4" long, the male is 4 1/8".
- the viv is well planted, with a medium, a hot and a cold hiding spot (half-tube bamboo)
- I am sure I have a male and a female, the female has the puffy things on her neck, the male is very colorful and has pores on the underside of his back legs
- the female was already living in the viv, and I introduced the male to her visually 3 days ago - and physically yesterday. (Oh, important: the female moved back in the viv a week ago, I completely "refurbished" the viv, even the substrate, with the exception of a plant and some of the bamboos)
- behavior yesterday: female timidly closing up on male, male retreating, then the female turns around when annoyed, then the male tries to approach her from the back, female flees with minor fight and a rattling-squeaky sound.
- behavior today: male occupying the main basking spot, female hiding most of the time, male tries to catch female, small fight again. Female has skin bruises on her neck. Oh, and male accepts fruit puree form tweezers, but the female is scared form the tweezers (unusual, she loves fruits)
- edit: the female is hiding so well neither I neither the male can find her for 20 minutes...

Photos form today:
4. Male



5&6. Female (basking, I chased the male away from there in order to give her some basking time & take photos)



Are these bruises bad? :S
I really don't know what if this situation is ok, pls help. :\

 

[Sgvreptiles]

Sounds like normal breeding behavior. The bite marks on the neck are normal, and the male will eventually calm down,and get a little more gentle. I dont see any big gashes or anything so I would say they are doing ok. Dark coloration in the females is common when first introduced.

 

[hetenyid]

Thanks!

I am a bit calmer now, knowing this, i am really in your debt.
Could you please also tell me approximately how much time they need to get along? (Just to know when it is already not ok for them to fight)
I am still a bit worried that the female is hiding very much. :S

Thanks again!

 

[Sgvreptiles]

If shes hiding for more then a week, id seperate them at that point. If she starts coming out, coloring up, and eating then its all good.

 

[hetenyid]

Ok, thank you!

I hope she will last for some days w/o crickets or fruits, she ate some not long before the move-in, and I was a bit worried/surprised that she didn't eat any today when offered (she actually attacked the tweezers.....)

I will post it if they are already ok!

Thanks again!

 

[daggekko]

Hey another point of view on the subject- I got a pair of P pasteuri that had never met before and were right at breeding age. I put them together as soon as I got them and they were fine for a couple weeks. I noticed the female was always dark and she started having marks all over her tail that looked like trouble to me. I was sitting at home one afternoon and saw the male chasing the female. They were going as fast as possible in circles around the top of the enclosure. I decided to seperate the male at this point. My female was developing eggs and ended up laying one dud egg. A couple weeks after this I put the male back in the enclosure and they are getting along wonderfully. They both are showing excellent coloration all the time.

I agree as far as the timing. If she doesn't stop hiding soon I would seperate them. As far as tweezer feeding you might wait a couple months to let the geckos settle in. Your pictures do show a story of breeding but if she doesn't brighten up that would be another indicator to seperate them.

 

[anthony bassett]

Sounds like your setup is big enough, bigger wouldnt hurt. This is normal breeding behavior and I would not worry too much. If skin tears start to appear, especially not on the neck, then I would start to worry. Some of my various pairs of day geckos take a while to get used to each other and will not breed for a month or so, but some get to it right away. So just keep an eye out and update us on new info!

 

[hetenyid]

I wanted to wait that week despite my intuitions - i didn't have any experience with breeding, so I thought my worries were just from my amateurness.
Tomorrow would have been the "verdict" day, they moved together last friday.
But the female didn't make it
She passed away this afternoon.
Nothing describes this sorrow

 

[LLDG]

There are a couple of issues that haven't been addressed.

One of Phelsuma's characteristics is a pair that seemed to get along can just one day decided that they hate each other and will fight, maul, injure and even kill each other if one or the other isn't removed.

Phelsuma should be constantly watched for that ever possible "we don't like each other" happens. And it happens a lot with Phelsuma.

Phelsuma are extremely territorial. When the second gecko is put into a space that a first gecko has "claimed", this issue has to be resolved.

I've seen male Phelsuma woo a nice female, mate her then kick her but because he doesn't want a second gecko in his terririum. Period. An hour or a week, he isn't going to change his mind.

When being introduced or re-introduced, the likelihood that a pair of Phelsuma will "get along" increases when the vivarium has been "neutralized". This means that neither the male or the female have been in the enclosure long enough to establish a territory.

Neutralize a space by cleaning: plants, furniture, walls, substrate. Set everything up again. Put the female then the male in.

I would not recommend "seeing if two will eventually get along" if one of the geckos is hiding, getting bit and gets stressed after 3 or so hours. Separate them. Give them time. Start a new terrarium or neutralize the previous one.

Introduce by putting them in one after the other, a few minutes apart. If they are not calmly sitting together after an hour, I would separate them.

 

[hetenyid]

Thanks. Good to know, even later than sooner.
I just wish that the "fortune" or any green-gecko-god would have made it possible for me to heed your warnings before it got too late.
She was my first gecko, and she was well taken care of - not just a gecko among the others for me.

 

[LLDG]

I am soooo sorry. I hadn't noticed when you mentioned she died - I am guessing from injuries or failure to thrive.

Darn if we don't learn Phelsuma behavior the hard way. People want to keep them in trios, put pairs together before a new gecko can acclimate, toss a bunch of crickets in, let them "duke" it out, wait to see if things get better, etc. I have found that with Phelsuma, patience counts.

I do hope that your next Phelsuma project goes better.

 

[panthergecko]

sorry for your loss.