Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
:-(
Hope for CITES protection and stiff penalties for trafficing "stiff" geckos.
Hope for CITES protection and stiff penalties for trafficing "stiff" geckos.
Last edited:
Do Tokay Geckos really cure AIDs and CANCER?
- Thread starter Riverside Reptiles
- Start date
norea
New member
The geckos, popular as pets in Asia, have long been used as traditional medicine for illnesses such as diabetes, asthma, skin disease and cancer, the report said. Their carcasses are dried up and ground into powder for consumption. In some parts of Asia, Tokay wine or whisky is consumed to boost energy.
can they really with those illnesses...
can they really with those illnesses...
photowildz
New member
Apparently there is some evidence (that tokay extract does treat things like diabetes asthma etc), maybe more than there is for rhino horn for example. BUT, the frustrating thing is that whether its true or not doesnt really matter. What matters is that people believe it, ridiculous (to most of us) or not. The hard thing is convincing people of this.....Check out this article
Penyelundupan 6,75 Ton Tokek Kering Digagalkan | Republika Online
Nearly7 tons of dried tokays going to Hong Kong, and thats just one shipment form one range state.....its bloody scary.
Penyelundupan 6,75 Ton Tokek Kering Digagalkan | Republika Online
Nearly7 tons of dried tokays going to Hong Kong, and thats just one shipment form one range state.....its bloody scary.
Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
New article. Not much new info, but I figured that I'd post it up just because it's a fresh reminder of how important it is for us to keep working on establishing a good, healthy, sustainable captive breeding mind set here in the US.
Asian Gecko Threatened By Medicine Trade: TRAFFIC | The Jakarta Globe
Asian Gecko Threatened By Medicine Trade: TRAFFIC | The Jakarta Globe
Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
New article. Not much new info, but I figured that I'd post it up just because it's a fresh reminder of how important it is for us to keep working on establishing a good, healthy, sustainable captive breeding mind set here in the US.
Asian Gecko Threatened By Medicine Trade: TRAFFIC | The Jakarta Globe
Asian Gecko Threatened By Medicine Trade: TRAFFIC | The Jakarta Globe
Hey, haven't been posting on here in a while but this is just ridiculous and just thought I would share with everyone.
Boy strangled over sharing money from gecko sale
Boy strangled over sharing money from gecko sale
Heinz
New member
The tokay is not the only reptile going thru this .
for 30 years I have worked with . Varanus Albigularus the White Throat Monitor
In Tanzania they woud capture a gravid female and so from time to time a few would showe up in the states . but 5 years ago the same myth your seeing with tokays hit Varanus Albigularus
Tanzania has shut down and there are few found in there native range .
somthing needs to be done ..
for 30 years I have worked with . Varanus Albigularus the White Throat Monitor
In Tanzania they woud capture a gravid female and so from time to time a few would showe up in the states . but 5 years ago the same myth your seeing with tokays hit Varanus Albigularus
Tanzania has shut down and there are few found in there native range .
somthing needs to be done ..
aquamentus_11
New member
Why have the leopard gecko and bearded dragon been so successfully established as purely captive bred populations in the pet trade? I know Australia shut down exportation of beardies years ago, but what about leopard geckos? Were they that much more expensive than tokays when they were still being shipped over?
aquamentus_11
New member
I know nothing about the clutch sizes or breeding frequency of these species, btw
billewicz
New member
Besides all the hype from the possible cures and powerful aphrodisiac that Tokay possess, they are revered as a status symbol as a pet in China. The new wealth that China enjoys in the last several years has also driven up prices especially for visual morphs. Few outside of China are willing to pay high-end Ball Python prices for wild caught Tokay morphs.
Even normals exported out of the Philippines recently had an asking price of $150 each from a Florida wholesaler. (Really nice normals from Vietnam are never over $5, wholesale and about a buck from Indonesia in wholesale quantities.) And of coarse these same normals are collected and eaten by the millions each year throughout Indochina.
Like any contraband, the illegal status of hunting and possessing Tokay in several countries will also drive up prices in the legal trade as well because it creates a bigger demand.
Even normals exported out of the Philippines recently had an asking price of $150 each from a Florida wholesaler. (Really nice normals from Vietnam are never over $5, wholesale and about a buck from Indonesia in wholesale quantities.) And of coarse these same normals are collected and eaten by the millions each year throughout Indochina.
Like any contraband, the illegal status of hunting and possessing Tokay in several countries will also drive up prices in the legal trade as well because it creates a bigger demand.
Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
Because they breed like mice. And they have mild temperaments. Same with crested geckos. However, we're starting to see over the years the effects of the massive amount of constant inbreeding resulting from smaller and smaller gene pools. If tokays acted and bred like crested geckos, there would be millions of cbb tokays on the market too.
billewicz
New member
So, we've seen a lot of interesting folklore and misinformation as to what good Tokay are to human research. Here's a tidbit of some interest noted by Backwater Reptiles in their trivia section:
A recent article detailed how NASA has used in-depth studies of the Tokay gecko's foot pads to help create better robots, spacesuits, and potentially even...Spiderman gloves! If all the toe-pad hairs (called "spatulae") were in contact with a surface simultaneously, a single gecko could support over 300 pounds on the side of a wall. The tiny hairs, not even visible, create temporary atomic bonds with the surface, called "Van Der Waals force." Scientists at MIT believe this binding technology could eventually replace the need for medical sutures and tissue attachment.
A recent article detailed how NASA has used in-depth studies of the Tokay gecko's foot pads to help create better robots, spacesuits, and potentially even...Spiderman gloves! If all the toe-pad hairs (called "spatulae") were in contact with a surface simultaneously, a single gecko could support over 300 pounds on the side of a wall. The tiny hairs, not even visible, create temporary atomic bonds with the surface, called "Van Der Waals force." Scientists at MIT believe this binding technology could eventually replace the need for medical sutures and tissue attachment.
billewicz
New member
Link to Popular Science online piece: Gecko Tech | Popular Science
billewicz
New member
OK, Ladies and Gentlemen,
This report is the most comprehensive study I've seen to date on Tokay harvesting, trafficking, trade and exports. Anybody that has an interest in this tread would marvel at the information collected here in.
You can go to the site and scroll down to open the full report as a pdf: TRAFFIC - Wildlife Trade News - AIDS cure rumours short-lived: Tokay Geckos mainly traded for traditional medicine, finds new study
Or go to the Open Publication here: ISSUU - The Trade in Tokay Geckos in South-East Asia by Richard Thomas
This report is the most comprehensive study I've seen to date on Tokay harvesting, trafficking, trade and exports. Anybody that has an interest in this tread would marvel at the information collected here in.
You can go to the site and scroll down to open the full report as a pdf: TRAFFIC - Wildlife Trade News - AIDS cure rumours short-lived: Tokay Geckos mainly traded for traditional medicine, finds new study
Or go to the Open Publication here: ISSUU - The Trade in Tokay Geckos in South-East Asia by Richard Thomas
ford mustang enthusiast
New member
I hate to say it, but it sounds like one of those "miracle elixer" kinda deals you see in an old western cartoon or movie where some con artist gets away with selling a remedy for blindness or some incurable ailment. Just an a$$hole's get rich quick scheme that has grown grossly out of proportion.
billewicz
New member
Back in school we did a whole semester in chemistry on "Quack Medicines and Why they Worked".
Underneath all of the 'Snake Oil Salesmanship' were basic elixirs that in many cases are still the foundation for remedies today. Alcohol, sugar, stimulants, sedatives, carbonation, etc. The difference today is that most of these are synthetically produced instead of distilled from a root, bark or leaf.
Traditional medicine in China and parts East has a 3000 year history in proven results. Prior to Western influences the Chinese rarely saw cancer, heart disease or stroke.
So Tokay have been used in traditional medicine all that time and TM continues to be the major consumer of animals harvested each year. So when pharmaceuticals where researching these properties of Tokay, the price of Tokay went up. And yes, getting 'rich' quick is almost every mans' dream, but consider the broken economy of Indonesia. Like a lot of African countries where it is every man for himself, and little or no enforceable law, Indonesia is not much different. What starts as a way to earn a weeks wages in one sale, escalates until you have middlemen jacking the price to see what the limit is. At least they are not killing a rhino or elephant who's populations cannot sustain the slaughter. Millions of Tokay are taken each year just for human food with little alarm to C.I.T.E.S.
The report in the link above addresses some of this. All of this effects the pet trade on pricing and availability. The report notes that this trend toward sales to big pharma is tapering off. That's good for us. Rare morphs are still prized as status symbols in China and Chinese collectors continue to purchase most of them from Indonesian harvesters.
They are willing, and now able to pay a premium for these better morphs while the market in the US is still not willing to match the current price levels.
So the Indonesians are willing to provide a service, harvesting wild Tokay from the jungle, and sell and ship that product live, to the world. Some people will pay $10,000 for a rare Tokay and most will not. Some will see this as an exceptional opportunity to enjoy one of natures rarities and some will see a con artist getting rich quick.
Underneath all of the 'Snake Oil Salesmanship' were basic elixirs that in many cases are still the foundation for remedies today. Alcohol, sugar, stimulants, sedatives, carbonation, etc. The difference today is that most of these are synthetically produced instead of distilled from a root, bark or leaf.
Traditional medicine in China and parts East has a 3000 year history in proven results. Prior to Western influences the Chinese rarely saw cancer, heart disease or stroke.
So Tokay have been used in traditional medicine all that time and TM continues to be the major consumer of animals harvested each year. So when pharmaceuticals where researching these properties of Tokay, the price of Tokay went up. And yes, getting 'rich' quick is almost every mans' dream, but consider the broken economy of Indonesia. Like a lot of African countries where it is every man for himself, and little or no enforceable law, Indonesia is not much different. What starts as a way to earn a weeks wages in one sale, escalates until you have middlemen jacking the price to see what the limit is. At least they are not killing a rhino or elephant who's populations cannot sustain the slaughter. Millions of Tokay are taken each year just for human food with little alarm to C.I.T.E.S.
The report in the link above addresses some of this. All of this effects the pet trade on pricing and availability. The report notes that this trend toward sales to big pharma is tapering off. That's good for us. Rare morphs are still prized as status symbols in China and Chinese collectors continue to purchase most of them from Indonesian harvesters.
They are willing, and now able to pay a premium for these better morphs while the market in the US is still not willing to match the current price levels.
So the Indonesians are willing to provide a service, harvesting wild Tokay from the jungle, and sell and ship that product live, to the world. Some people will pay $10,000 for a rare Tokay and most will not. Some will see this as an exceptional opportunity to enjoy one of natures rarities and some will see a con artist getting rich quick.
ford mustang enthusiast
New member
Very true. Honestly I wasn't aware that tokays were used traditional Chinese medicine. I thought the "miracle aids cure" rumor was what led to the inflation of said geckos in SE Asia and was under the impression that the wild tokay population was dwindling. In another article, I had read that owning a unique or very rare morph of tokay was supposed to be like a status symbol (similar to owning an expensive watch or european luxury car) and that some people pay a hefty sum to own them.
billewicz
New member
This is from a recent Traffic publication, 2013
The Trade in Tokay Geckos
Gekko gecko in South-East Asia: with a
case study on Novel Medicinal Claims
in Peninsular Malaysia
Olivier S. Caillabet
(2013).
TRAFFIC, Petaling Jaya, Selangor,
Malaysia
"In Indonesia, Tokay Geckos are not protected; however, a harvest quota of 50 000 individuals is in place. Ten percent of this quota (5000 individuals) is for local consumption with the remainder (45 000) for export. These may only be harvested from specific provinces or districts designated by the Indonesian Institute of Sciences (LIPI) (Siswomartono, 1998 ) and collection outside of these areas or surplus to the specified volume is not permitted.
There are 23 designated Tokay Gecko collection areas in Indonesia. Java has the largest Tokay Gecko harvest quota of 24 000 individuals, with the remaining harvest divided between the islands of Bali.
The purpose of harvest (e.g. for medicine, as pets etc.) is also specified within the quota and according to the quota in place for Tokay Geckos, only live animals destined for the pet trade may be exported."
The traditional medicine market is huge in China. They also eat Tokay there as well. The legal limits noted above are probably not heavily enforced as the Tokay morphs that I was importing were culled from a company harvest for food processing. They claimed to collect 750,000 Tokay a year in Indonesia.
The Trade in Tokay Geckos
Gekko gecko in South-East Asia: with a
case study on Novel Medicinal Claims
in Peninsular Malaysia
Olivier S. Caillabet
(2013).
TRAFFIC, Petaling Jaya, Selangor,
Malaysia
"In Indonesia, Tokay Geckos are not protected; however, a harvest quota of 50 000 individuals is in place. Ten percent of this quota (5000 individuals) is for local consumption with the remainder (45 000) for export. These may only be harvested from specific provinces or districts designated by the Indonesian Institute of Sciences (LIPI) (Siswomartono, 1998 ) and collection outside of these areas or surplus to the specified volume is not permitted.
There are 23 designated Tokay Gecko collection areas in Indonesia. Java has the largest Tokay Gecko harvest quota of 24 000 individuals, with the remaining harvest divided between the islands of Bali.
The purpose of harvest (e.g. for medicine, as pets etc.) is also specified within the quota and according to the quota in place for Tokay Geckos, only live animals destined for the pet trade may be exported."
The traditional medicine market is huge in China. They also eat Tokay there as well. The legal limits noted above are probably not heavily enforced as the Tokay morphs that I was importing were culled from a company harvest for food processing. They claimed to collect 750,000 Tokay a year in Indonesia.