Price: How Do You Figure?

[Turtlestork]

Hello everyone,

I have been breeding geckos for a while, and I am beginning to sell my younger geckos. How do you guys figure the price of your geckos? My breeding stock aren't the most refined geckos, so I have a bit of variation in my hatchlings. Really, I have no specific line I am developing at the moment, but kind of picking and choosing what I am keeping and what I am not. Anyway, I typically look around the classifieds to see what similar geckos are going for. However, what factors really go into a price? I understand a gecko has one specific phenotype, but that does not mean that a gecko will breed the morph it appears. How do you guys factor this into the price? What about tail vs. no tail? I see many people that sell nice geckos, bit a nice gecko does not always have nice genes, right? When it comes to breeding, a nice gecko that is more of an anomaly in a project would be worth less that a nice gecko in a refined line, right? When do you guys consider a line refined?

Thanks,
TS

 

[Spyral]

Pricing can be very subjective and is generally by location (how saturated is the market?), sex of the animal (females usually more expensive), and the quality of the animal. When it comes to breeder quality, some breeders want to see a lineage to the animal, whether it's your own or from a previous breeder. If you yourself are not a well known breeder, it helps to say you've obtained your stock from someone who took the time to develop specific traits.

Crested geckos do not follow "typical" genetics & heredity in the reptile hobby in the sense that they don't have genetic morphs. They are mostly selectively bred to bring out desired traits. There are no "hets" for hidden traits, but it is acceptable to say "from red lines" or "from pinstripe parents" if they do not display these traits. If you do not currently selectively breed for specific traits or a look, then you may consider going after more of a first time or "pet quality" market which generally requires lower prices, unless you are the only local supplier of cresties.

Sometimes, a plain looking gecko can throw really nice offspring if paired correctly, so if you are selling a breeder, it's good to provide pictures of them to show the value of the animal. The same can be true for a spectacular animal - but most of the time it seems that breeding great animals together will give you great animals more often than "plain" ones, but be prepared for this reality. Most breeders don't recommend breeding standard looking animals, because even the best pairings will result in some standard looking offspring. The goal of most breeders is to improve their stock over time. However, you need to assess your current market and goals.

I generally don't discount lost tails - but do discount noticeable tail nips.

A refined line is one that reproduces the look (or improves on it) over multiple generations. An example is a pair of yellow tigers producing only (or the majority) yellow tigers with each clutch. Since a lot of time and effort is put into getting that repeatable look, it's fair for the seller to ask more for the offspring, since you know what to expect from future offspring if paired carefully.

I hope it's not against forum policy to mention this, but I did write a pricing guide on my website (in my sig) - it's under the "Morphs & Colors" section. It's geared more towards a buyer and not so much a seller, but the info still applies.

 

[Turtlestork]

Ok, so I see that, but then if a name is what gets you places in the crested market, then nobody can ever refine a line unless they are a big name, which I feel isn't true. I do understand that point though, but I feel putting a big name on your geckos is sort of "cheating".

I do get why females sell for more, that is obviously understood. I do not always understand why hatchlings sell for more than males, though, when their color is not yet developed. I feel like that should balance out.

The fact that geckos are selectively bred is not a reason to not call it "typical" genetics. Just because we haven't isolated trait to the point as in, say, bearded dragons, doesn't mean we can't eventually. And geckos will still be "het" for things. A gecko won't always breed what it looks like...So shouldn't this factor into price somewhere?

I do understand how a line has to be repeatable, but then where does this come from? I feel like it isn't as easy as just breeding, take desired babies, breed together, repeat. How does one make a line? I know my breeding stock have a massive variation in genetics, as they throw some very different looking offspring. However, some of the things I see I haven't even seen in the big name lines. So, I don't see them as "genetically impure". How do I get the traits isolated from a breeder's standpoint.

Thanks,
TS

 

[lauraleellbp]

There are as yet no true "morphs" that have been isolated and proven as with other geckos like Leos, AFTs, etc. So Crestie genetics at this point is completely a matter of selective breeding.

I personally look for geckos where I can see pictures of at least parents if not grandparents, and I'm looking for evidence that traits I'm working with have been inherited and therefore chances are good that gecko will be also be able to pass that phenotype as well as genotype along to their offspring. Of course there are "hets," but at this point we have zero clue what traits are dominant versus recessive - IF there truly even IS any clearcut dominance vs recessiveness in ANY of the traits we've identified or call "morphs" at this point, so I personally look for expressed phenotype rather than rolling the dice on possible genes.

For example, I have some very specific goals with my pinstripe projects, and absolutely will not buy a pinstripe unless I can see both parents are at least high percentage if not full pinners and at least one parent has the other traits I want to work with. Even with all this behind them, I'll still be sure to end up with many hatchlings that do NOT reflect my goals.

With my tricolor extreme harley project, I simply can't be as picky because not as many people have been working with this morph for long, so really nice tricolors are few and far between.

I will pay top dollar for geckos that meet my criteria. And most of the time I prefer to buy hatchlings and raise them up myself. Others are not as picky, may not have as specific breeding goals, or may not plan to breed at all. So to tie all this back to your original question- "It depends!" LOL

 

[Spyral]

Ok, so I see that, but then if a name is what gets you places in the crested market, then nobody can ever refine a line unless they are a big name, which I feel isn't true. I do understand that point though, but I feel putting a big name on your geckos is sort of "cheating".

It's not just a "big" name, but it is your reputation, and that takes time to build. Having nice animals is what really matters. Probably my nicest animals have come from lesser-known breeders.

I do not always understand why hatchlings sell for more than males, though, when their color is not yet developed. I feel like that should balance out.

If a male is not absolutely stunning, some people consider them much less desirable from a breeding standpoint. Generally, you want to breed only the nicest males. Males make great pets, but people interested in pets only want to pay so much, and some breeders will price them low just to get them to move. With juvies (assuming they're good quality) there's a 50/50 chance that they'll be female.

The fact that geckos are selectively bred is not a reason to not call it "typical" genetics. Just because we haven't isolated trait to the point as in, say, bearded dragons, doesn't mean we can't eventually. And geckos will still be "het" for things. A gecko won't always breed what it looks like...So shouldn't this factor into price somewhere?

I understand that there is always the possibility of new discoveries - that's one of the things that makes it so exciting! As it currently stands, though, marketing anything in cresties as "het" will likely get you some negative comments. If you can display that your animal comes from a line that throws "oddballs", and if someone is looking for that, I'm sure that animal will be valuable to that person. Not so much from someone who's got something else in mind for their breeding goals. Make sure to highlight what you think are the good traits or possible good genes.

Selling geckos is just like selling anything - it's all in how you sell it! Doing research, understand what people are looking for, show off your animals to see if there's interest. I am not a good salesperson, but I feel I can market my animals reasonably well, since I don't need to hard-sell anyone a pet.

I do understand how a line has to be repeatable, but then where does this come from? I feel like it isn't as easy as just breeding, take desired babies, breed together, repeat. How does one make a line?

It starts with identifying what you want to see. Do you want big crests on a yellow patternless with huge dalmatian spots? Start by finding a male and female that show as many of these traits as possible. I'm not a huge fan of inbreeding cresties to get results, so I would say obtain other unrelated pairs as well and cross breed offspring. Keep the best ones; over time, retire or sell any that don't fit your plans.

I know my breeding stock have a massive variation in genetics, as they throw some very different looking offspring. However, some of the things I see I haven't even seen in the big name lines. So, I don't see them as "genetically impure". How do I get the traits isolated from a breeder's standpoint.

From a big picture standpoint, it's important to have genetic variation in any captive breeding population. I don't see this variation as "impure" - I see it as a great way to preserve the natural history of the species. Since so many people are currently breeding, however, my goal is to refine traits through selective breeding.

If you see something you like or that is unique, I would encourage you to show pictures to the community, find out if there are others like them, and build a breeding group around it if it suits your goals. Allen Repashy developed the pinstripe trait in this way. If you are familiar with the Mardi Gras (yellow with red spots) line, it's the same thing. More people have been working on "extreme" harlequins lately. This is a long process, as cresties can take up to two years to be fully mature enough to breed.