Need help w/quick genetic question, please.

[KaitS.]

Okay, I have a male tremper albino pastel. I read that if I breed him to a SHTCT I will get Sunglows, which I really want. But in order to insure I get Sunglow babies what should the genetics of the SHTCT be? Oh and since my male is a pastel I assume I need a pretty bright female to get some good color in the babies. Is it that simple or will him being a pastel interfere with anything else? Sorry if these are dumb questions, lol. I'm trying to figure all of this genetic stuff out and its complicated

 

[Mardy]

You won't get sunglows first generation combining tremper albino with SHTCTB. That pairing would get you hypo het tremper albinos. What you would do is to take your best offsprings and breed them together, then you'll get a chance at getting sunglows.

To get sunglows first generation you would need to find a SHTCTB het tremper. But even then you may not get perfect sunglows, so you would still need to linebreed the best offsprings together to achieve a quality sunglow.

 

[KaitS.]

Huh...thats odd. Everything I have found said that sunglows are just albino shtct's and that you get them from an albino and a shtct. Now I'm confused :/

 

[Jonnyinga]

Albino is a recessive gene. You won't see it unless you breed something that is het for it to another het for it. and even then, it will only be 50% of the babies. Example... normal het tremper albino x normal het tremper albino = 25% normal 50% normal het tremper 25% tremper albino

Genetics.......Hypos, Tangerines, and Sunglows - YouTube - sasobek does a good detailed explanation if you wanna take a look at it.

 

[Mardy]

Albino is a simple recessive trait, it must be passed on by both parents in order for the trait to show in the offsprings. So if you breed a tremper albino to a super hypo tangerine carrot-tail, you will result in het tremper albino offspring.

However if you breed a tremper albion to a super hypo tangerine carrot-tail het tremper albino, then you can get 50% chance of getting albinos in the offspring. See both parents have to pass the albino genes in order for the offspring to show it.

So yes technically it's correct that sunglows were made from albino x shtctb, but those were first generation creation, and sunglows didn't come from first generation breeding. It started that way, then was linebred and offsprings selectively bred to achieve the sunglow look. Hope that helps

 

[KaitS.]

That does help. Its just that its the opposite of what lots of sites were telling me so I got confused. So what would the other 50% be? And also, what is a "blood" hypo? Is it different or does it just refer to the color? Will using a blood hypo mess up trying to get sunglows?

 

[Mardy]

The other 50% would be hypo het tremper albino, the same thing you would get if you were to breed a tremper albino to a shtctb. So in other words if you find a SHTCTB het Tremper Albino, you can save 1 season's worth of breeding because 50% of the offspring would be sunglow'ish. If you get just a SHTCTB without het albino, you would get 100% hypo het albino offspring, which then you would take another year to breed those back or select the best offsprings to breed to each other.

Remember I said sunglow'ish, you may not get a quality sunglow until you linebreed for another season or two. Because a good quality sunglow should be patternless, no spots or dots on the body or head. There's no guarantee you'll get that the first season with your pairing. Speaking of which I just realized my icon picture is a perfect example of a sunglow

Blood hypo is a linebred designer SHTCT produced by JMG. They were linebred to give that darker orange almost red look. You can use them in your project, but remember that you are breeding to a non blood hypo, so you would likely lose that blood hypo color in the offspring.

Edit: Oh and if you are thinking about breeding, don't leave home without your genetics calculator

http://www.lovegeckos.com/Genetics.aspx
http://www.leopardgeckomorphcalculator.co.uk/MorphCalculator.aspx

They'll be useful in figuring things out as you mix & match your pairing.

 

[KaitS.]

Okay, I'm getting the picture now...So if I got the sunglow'ish (lol) babies and bred them together would I get all sunglows? Or would I get a mix? The reason I asked about the blood is because I have been searching high and low for a shtctb het for tremper and I can't find one and I wondered if the blood hypo was different or not because that gave me more options to choose from. But I can't find any listed as het tremper albino....

 

[Mardy]

If you want to cheat you could get a sunglow female to go with your tremper albino, and you would get a mix of tremper albinos and sunglows as offspring. But if you want to create your own, then yes it would take a tremper albino x shtctb and a couple seasons of selective linebreeding to achieve good looking sunglows.

Once you have hypo tremper albinos (sunglow'ish), yes you would select the best ones and breed them together. It's how sunglows were done initially.

 

[KaitS.]

Okay, I'm almost done asking questions lol. Say I do what you said and "cheat". What would the trempers be? And babies out of my albino and a shtct, what you called "sunglowish", what would I sell them as?

 

[Mardy]

You want to look for a tangerine tremper albino, pair him up with a sunglow. I thought you had a tremper albino already?

As for the babies, first generation of tremper albino x shtctb = hypo het tremper albino, and you would label them as such if you sell them.

Then you pick out the best ones and selective breed them, second generation you should get half hypo het tremper albino, half hypo tremper albino (hybinos)

Then you pick out the best ones, and further linebreed, 3rd generation you should hopefully get decent to good looking sunglows. Sunglows are super hypo tangerine carrot-tail albinos, so that means they should look like a super hypo tangerine carrot-tail baldy, but an albino version (no black pigments). Their bodies should be smooth, no patterns or spots.

 

[KaitS.]

I do have a tremper, not sure how I confused you lol. I have a male tremper pastel. I have decided to "cheat" and pair him with a female sunglow. What I meant in my last message was that if like you said I mixed those two and got trempers and sunglows then how do I label the babies? Like would they be tremper het...?

 

[Mardy]

Tremper Albino x Tremper Sunglow = Hypo Tremper Albino (some will be super hypo, some will be hypo, some will have patterns, etc)

Both parents will pass the albino genes so therefore all your offsprings will be albinos. Then all that's left to do is to selective breed the best looking ones for sunglows.

 

[KaitS.]

Okay so those offspring will technically be sunglows, just probably not impressive sunglows is what your saying. Correct?

 

[Mardy]

Ones with patterns aren't considered sunglows, so you would call them tremper albinos. Ones that may have tangerine banding would be called tangerine tremper albinos. You only call them sunglows if they are super-hypo (no spots/patterns) and their bodies are yellow/orange in coloring.

 

[KaitS.]

Gotcha, thanks so much!! I know I kind of took a while to figure it all out so thanks for breaking it down for me!

 

[Nativeson]

Sunglows are a great project! Here are some visuals for you. The first two pictures are siblings from an Aptor x Sunglow pairing. They are hypo albinos with the really orange one being "Sunglow-ish"......in my opinion. The next photo are actual sunglows...Albino SHTCTB. It takes a few seasons and some luck to get to the desired geckos. Leopard Gecko Wiki and a morph calculator are a must!!

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