Suggestions for feeding a picky leopard gecko?

[cassicat4]

Hi, I'm new to the forums so please forgive me if this has been asked before and I didn't search for the thread right.

My one-year old female leopard gecko enjoys causing me stress. Her eating habits are incredibly erratic - sometimes will eat every second day, other times will only eat once a week or two weeks. However, when she does eat, the only thing she will eat are crickets and occasionally a butterworm. I want her to have more variety in her diet because I think she'll be healthier for it.

I've offered her horn worms, silkworms, wax worms, superworms, mealworms, mealworm pupas, meal worm beetles, and phoenix worms. I've tried offering them with and without supplementation. Nothing.

As I live in Alberta, I can't offer roaches as they are illegal.

I've tried everything I can think of to get her eating something different...I've restricted all food items except the one I want her to eat, I've tried increasing and decreasing the number of days when I do offer her food, I've offered all the food at once to give her choices, and I've tried waiting until she "looks" hungry and in hunting mode and then offering food...however, because her eating habits are erratic, I really don't want to starve her just to convince her to eat something else as she does lose a little weight (a few grams) during her hunger strikes.

For those who've had experience with this, how did you resolve it? I just want her to be happy and healthy with a nice fat tail, but she's stubborn as all heck. Although she's not at an unhealthy weight for her size (she's 55g), I've seen her weigh more before she became picky, which I believe started in the spring (possibly due to onset of breeding season?). I did take her to the vet recently to rule out parasites and other health conditions, so I'm assuming nothing in that regard is causing her to be like this.

Thanks.

 

[cricket4u]

Hi,

Can you provide more specific details? All temps? supplements and how often? size of enclosure? type of thermometer used? How many hides are provided? Substrate?

 

[cassicat4]

Hi,

Can you provide more specific details? All temps? supplements and how often? size of enclosure? type of thermometer used? How many hides are provided? Substrate?

Not a problem.

-She's in a 20 gallon terrarium.
-Reptile carpet for substrate.
-UTH used on hot side, with a hot side temp range of 85-92F, cold side is maintained around low 80's. All temps measured daily with an analog gauge on the hot and cool side, and weekly with a digital temperature probe. On the advice of a herp vet, her light source is a Reptiglo UVB 2.0 coil light, which also adds heat. In the winter, I also use an infrared heat lamp 24/7 as it maintains her temps where they are now.
-Also on the advice of the vet, she is given calcium with D3 every second day, either powder form (dusted on crickets - Exoterra brand) when she eats, or liquid form (children's liquid calcium with D3) when she doesn't. She is also given Herptavite approximately once a week (dusted on crickets). As well, there is a dish of calcium with D3 in her enclosure at all times.
-She has two hides, one on the hot side, one on the cold side, with a humid hide box on the cold side. She also has a ramp which goes over her cold hide in which she often chooses to sleep under instead, approximately the middle of her enclosure. She has a large water bowl in the middle, and a few decor items to add interest.

When I take her out of her enclosure, she's very active, constantly on the move, exploring and climbing. From what I have seen of her inside her enclosure though, she's a bit more blah, only moves to change sleeping spots or drink water. Seems almost...bored?

These eating issues have been consistent since about January I'd say...that's when she chose to stop eating daily and started going every two days, and then her habits have "evolved" since then. The only changes to her environment since then are one move to a different spot in the house, the addition of the UVB bulb in early June, and an enclosure re-vamp about a week ago.

Hopefully this helps - and any advice or info you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

 

[910Geckogal]

Leopard Gecko Won't Eat....

Your enclosure and temps all seem fine. You have already had a vet check and 55g is a beautiful weight. Stop worrying Mom, your baby is fine. You are going wayyyyy overboard with the D3, why is that? I just got Ron Tremper's new book, signed to me and everything (yeaaaa, still can't believe it!!!)...and you know he's the highest authority there is on Leo care....so I feel confident in saying....cut out all that extra D3..According to him (Ron Tremper) Dusting is of little help and just not necessary...I know, I had to let that sink in for a while myself. LOL But the jar lid full is perfect.

You didn't mention any vitamins that you are using...so after reading his new book I have started using Osteo-Form by Vit-a-mix which is exactly what he uses, I ordered it online.

Ron states that with his own Geckos when he sees a need to "assist Feed" them, he simply " ..pinch the head of two mealworms or select mealworm pupae. Pick up your gecko with one hand. Nose of gecko pointed upwards. Tap the jaw line or eye of the gecko to get it to open its' mouth....Insert the prepared insect into the rear of the mouth. Hold the gecko, nose up, until it swallows the food. Repeat twice.

He also states that you can safely allow up to five days of fasting before considering the possibility of assist feeding. Most geckos just need one or two assist feedings to jumpstart the feeding response. Be persistent and don't give up should your gecko resist.

Just thought I'd throw that in there if you just can't get it to eat for more than 5 days.

Ron Tremper's new book "LEOPARD GECKOS THE NEXT GENERATIONS"..has not been released yet but you can purchase it from his website as well has get some great info @ Leopardgecko.com

This is not a plug for him, but I mean Hey, It's RON TREMPER....LOL Check it out and hopefully you will have resolution to your situation.

Best of Luck!:cheer::cheer:

 

[910Geckogal]

Oh I forgot the MOST important thing I wanted to say.....Maybe your Leo only wants crickets....and that's OK. Not ALL Leos will eat different things often. I have African Fat tails that flat out refuse to eat ANYTHING other than crickets...EVER. They will refuse roaches mealworms, waxworms, pinkie mice, they almost dare me to try...lol They have gone close to a week with a full pan of mealworms and never touched them. I cleaned their cage once and found a two living dubia roaches that I swore they had eaten..Nope. It's crickets for them or nothing. Geckos are like us, we can't MAKE them like something, it's like trying to make a kid eat brussel sprouts...haha:fight::fight:

Don't forget to check out LEOPARDGECKO.COM

 

[cricket4u]

I cannot expect you to take my word over the vets, however unless the vet has experience housing leopard geckos I can assure you his recommendations are not 100% accurate. UVB light and D3 every other day is too much. Too much can lead to appetite loss and serious health conditions (some fatal). I am against the use of UVB in small enclosures for leopard geckos. UVB can penetrate through hides causing overexposure. There isn't enough room in a 20 gallon that allows for them to completely avoid the rays.

Please remove the calcium with d3 from the enclosure asap. Too much D3 cause lead to toxicity.
Also read through this links. There is lots of good information.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...care-recommendations-24-june-2012-update.html

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/pests-diseases/62178-educational-links.html

 

[cassicat4]

Thank you both!
- I will reduce her Calcium D3 intake. How often should I be administering it, and is it best to do it in liquid form, rely on her to use her calcium dish, or continue dusting, but just less often?
-I will remove the UV light ASAP. What is the risk of too much UVB on its own? Eye damage? I checked out the links provided and they're very helpful, thanks. What light would you recommend I use instead? I don't want to use a light with any more heat than what the UV puts out because her terrarium will overheat really quickly. However, she's in a room where she can't get enough natural light so an artificial one is required. I'm just not sure what I can use. Advice would be great as I have a few creatures using the same types of daylight fluorescent lights so I'll change it out for all of them.
-I'll stop worrying about what she chooses to eat. If she's happy with crickets and as long as she's not being deprived nutritionally by only having crickets, then I'll leave her be. And that's exactly what she is, a stubborn kid!
-While I feel it's important to take vet recommendations into consideration, and this vet is very good, I honestly don't know what kind of experience she has with leos so I'd rather trust people's personal experiences over textbook theory or a few case studies.
-I will definitely look into Ron's gecko book as well.
-And ok ok, I will stop worrying about her so much as well.

Thanks very much!

 

[cricket4u]

Thank you both!
- I will reduce her Calcium D3 intake. How often should I be administering it, and is it best to do it in liquid form, rely on her to use her calcium dish, or continue dusting, but just less often?
-I will remove the UV light ASAP. What is the risk of too much UVB on its own? Eye damage? I checked out the links provided and they're very helpful, thanks. What light would you recommend I use instead? I don't want to use a light with any more heat than what the UV puts out because her terrarium will overheat really quickly. However, she's in a room where she can't get enough natural light so an artificial one is required. I'm just not sure what I can use. Advice would be great as I have a few creatures using the same types of daylight fluorescent lights so I'll change it out for all of them.
-I'll stop worrying about what she chooses to eat. If she's happy with crickets and as long as she's not being deprived nutritionally by only having crickets, then I'll leave her be. And that's exactly what she is, a stubborn kid!
-While I feel it's important to take vet recommendations into consideration, and this vet is very good, I honestly don't know what kind of experience she has with leos so I'd rather trust people's personal experiences over textbook theory or a few case studies.
-I will definitely look into Ron's gecko book as well.
-And ok ok, I will stop worrying about her so much as well.

Thanks very much!

I did not tell you to remove the UVB. I simply stated it worries me due to the size of the enclosure. Also it should not be combined with too much d3 via supplements. Your using a low 2.0 which is correct, however keep in mind that leopad geckos skin has the ability to absorb 14 more times UVB than a basking reptile. This means they can reach their UVB needs in shorter amounts of time. I use UVB as well ,however this is the difference.

(I copied and pasted it from a previous post because I'm so tired of typing the same thing):lol:

All my enclosures at least 3 feet long. I use 18 inch UVB bulbs for the smaller enclosures which means only that section get UVB rays (an option). Why do I feel it's important? UVB rays have been known to penetrate in burrows which means it can penetrate through hides putting the gecko at risk of UVB overexposure. Keep in mind that they are able to absorb 14 times more UVB than basking reptiles in a very short time frame.

I have a meter. Ideally it's either UVB bulb or supplementing D3, not both. The problem is not all UVB bulbs have been proven effective and without a meter how will you know if the UVB bulb is within safe and effective range?
I guess you can just hope that the UVB bulb is doing it's job and at least replace it every six months. Maybe supplementing D3 as well twice a month may help. In reality the only way to know if this is working is to take the gecko to the vet to get blood work and check bone density by the age of 3.

Do some research on the subject and decide for yourself. If you have an albino remove it. It may be a good idea to stop the d3 for at least a week since she was receiving too much. There is a chance this is why she is picky. Too much calcium can problems digesting. Also make sure she is well hydrated. The only times I have seen a picky leopard gecko was under these conditions.

Dehydrated
Oversupplementation
Improper temperatures
Systemic infections

Of course there are exceptions. Prey too large or too small. Bad experience with prey item(getting bit). I have never had even picky females aside from refusing phoenix worms (which is common in many geckos), however I have heard of others females becoming picky during ovulation.

 

[cassicat4]

I did not tell you to remove the UVB. I simply stated it worries me due to the size of the enclosure. Also it should not be combined with too much d3 via supplements. Your using a low 2.0 which is correct, however keep in mind that leopad geckos skin has the ability to absorb 14 more times UVB than a basking reptile. This means they can reach their UVB needs in shorter amounts of time. I use UVB as well ,however this is the difference.

(I copied and pasted it from a previous post because I'm so tired of typing the same thing):lol:

All my enclosures at least 3 feet long. I use 18 inch UVB bulbs for the smaller enclosures which means only that section get UVB rays (an option). Why do I feel it's important? UVB rays have been known to penetrate in burrows which means it can penetrate through hides putting the gecko at risk of UVB overexposure. Keep in mind that they are able to absorb 14 times more UVB than basking reptiles in a very short time frame.

I have a meter. Ideally it's either UVB bulb or supplementing D3, not both. The problem is not all UVB bulbs have been proven effective and without a meter how will you know if the UVB bulb is within safe and effective range?
I guess you can just hope that the UVB bulb is doing it's job and at least replace it every six months. Maybe supplementing D3 as well twice a month may help. In reality the only way to know if this is working is to take the gecko to the vet to get blood work and check bone density by the age of 3.

Do some research on the subject and decide for yourself. If you have an albino remove it. It may be a good idea to stop the d3 for at least a week since she was receiving too much. There is a chance this is why she is picky. Too much calcium can problems digesting. Also make sure she is well hydrated. The only times I have seen a picky leopard gecko was under these conditions.

Dehydrated
Oversupplementation
Improper temperatures
Systemic infections

Of course there are exceptions. Prey too large or too small. Bad experience with prey item(getting bit). I have never had even picky females aside from refusing phoenix worms (which is common in many geckos), however I have heard of others females becoming picky during ovulation.

Ok, that makes sense. I will remove the UVB for now just because my enclosure is taller than it is long, and I'd rather her get no UVB than become overexposed to UVB, especially since I was really watching her yesterday and noticed she often has one eye (the one closest to the light) closed, so I'm concerned it's hurting her eyes as well? I will also look into investing in a UVB meter. For now, I will just supplement her with D3...once a week? And otherwise, will just leave plain calcium in a dish in her tank. May I ask...why do vets feel it's difficult to OD a leopard gecko on D3? I've been to two different (at least one reputable) herp vets and while one didn't really give me a straight answer (just said every second or third day calcium supplementation should be fine), the other one I mentioned was telling me to give her D3 every second day during the breeding months just to ensure she doesn't have a problem either passing or reabsorbing her eggs. At the time, I had also taken my beardie in for a check-up and she was really adament that he never receives D3 except in his once weekly vitamin supplementation, because like you said, too much leads to toxicity. I asked if this is a problem in leos, and she said no. This vet was great with my other reptiles, but seemed to lack conviction when it came to my leo, so even at the time, I wasn't 100% confident in her diagnosis. Long story short - I'm adjusting her calcium/vitamin supplementation as you've advised, but I am curious where this vet would be getting her information to be advising me differently?

I didn't know that about the bloodwork/bone density test by 3, but I'll write it down and be sure to take her in then as well.

I'll abstain from D3 for a week. I've already replaced her in-tank calcium with plain calcium. She's not an albino, but I'd rather be safe than sorry, especially because of the eye thing. I appreciate the education as I didn't know either that too much UVB could be a bad thing for leos. I see her drink quite often so I'm not thinking it's dehydration that's contributing to her picky-ness, but oversupplementation is definitely a possibility. So just to clarify - if I'm understanding correctly everything that's been said on here - and on this site (where I did some more reading on UVB/Vit D) UV Lighting for Reptiles: Vitamin D synthesis in Ultraviolet Light - leaving a dish of plain calcium in her tank at all times and then supplementing (i.e. dusting prey items) once/week with calcium D3 and multivitamin powder in the absence of UVB should be enough to keep her calcium/D3/vitamin levels where they should be?

I don't know if she's ever had any bad experiences with prey items...any time I've offered her things with teeth (horn worms, butterworms, superworms) I've always watched her with them to see what she does. I honestly think she's just not a fan of the taste of the horns or supers, because she's tried one of each (biting the head first) and had no negative aftereffects other than just refusing to touch them after that.

Thanks so much for your help, it's greatly appreciated!

 

[cricketsnieceandrepsitter]

I can answer some of these questions for her. Some vets don't know enough. Nobody knows the exact amounts they need. I know some people who did not know to use d3 and were only using plain calcium and gutloading and the gecko did not have MBD so I don't think they need much. Some vets know that these supplements can damage the kidneys. Other vets have not seen enough geckos or did necropsies to understand. These vets see the geckos and never figure out what is the problem and the gecko dies. If she is laying eggs maybe dusting 2 times a week is good.