How do you keep your breeding pairs? (Tokays)

tombo46

New member
I'm interested to find out how people keep their pairs of Tokays in regards to how long they are housed together. How many of you keep them together all year round?

Personally I tend to leave the male in for the duration of the egg laying and then pull him shortly after. Sometimes I'll keep a couple of pairs together as a family unit as I like to see how they interact with the hatchlings.
 

billewicz

New member
There is several interesting pieces to this question.

First, I must say that most fresh imported females, especially ones that come in under 40 grams should not be allowed to be continually bred.

This, and other forums are full of sad tails of dead females because of "egg binding". This is not really the primary issue, it is kidney failure in the female due to increased body weight after adulthood was achieved in the wild, and the added stress of egg production.

Having said that, I do have several wild caught pair that spend all their time together. They are mostly great big Patternless Olive's that were very robust when they arrived.

For all wild caught, white type females; Calico, Leucistic, Pied, whatever you want to call them, I do not them let them be with a male for more than 3 months. Some I pull the male even sooner depending on how frail they are after egg laying.

Of all the Tokay 'Morph' types, these seem to have the highest risk for failure. I pull the males from most of my other wild caught females in 4 to 6 months.

I can also tell you that very young captive bred females may parish if they are allowed to be over bred for more than one set of eggs in their first season. This can happen by 'accident' in the 'family' groups where the original male breeds his prodigy.

So, this brings me to the family unit. Depending on the allowed space of the enclosure, the key male can be happily bred with related females, like siblings, and the eggs and offspring are safe.

Now, all females need their space, and the average enclosure is no where big enough for multiple females. I have this condition in a 10' x 10' room.

Now, back to the family. The original pair will protect and 'brood' the eggs and defend their offspring and nesting territory. Once the prodigy start to mature, the male will start nipping at the young males tails. Eventually these little guys will loose their tails to dad's chastising. Should they be left in an enclosure with no place for the new boys to set up their own territory, Pops will kill them.

Now the adult female may feel the competition from her girls to mate with Dad and she will start nipping at their backside. If this is allowed to continue, they young females will eventually be badly broken and may parish from these crippling wounds.

Again, their social behavior is restricted by the limited sizes of our enclosures. If they had enough room to establish several different territorial zones, than I suspect a more forgiving result would be observed.

I can tell you that a 10' x 10' room is not big enough for two adults males without them fighting, nor is it big enough for two unrelated females without one eating the others' eggs.

My normal enclosure size is 12" wide x 24" deep x 30" tall. I have smaller for hatchling and sub-adults and I have 18" wide x 36" deep x 48" tall for older, bigger pairs. And then there are the five reptile rooms that have loose Tokay pairs for cricket clean-up.

Enjoy!
 
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MC gecko

New member
My normal enclosure size is 12" wide x 24" deep x 30" tall. I have smaller for hatchling and sub-adults and I have 18" wide x 36" deep x 48" tall for older, bigger pairs. And then there are the five reptile rooms that have loose Tokay pairs for cricket clean-up.

Enjoy!

Billewicz, what is the model of your terrarium ? This is home made terrarium ?

Thanks

Mathieu Bigras
 

billewicz

New member
I use Exo-Terra for smaller single adults, juvies and hatching. Everything else is custom made to fit on metal (kitchen/Metro) rack systems from company's like customglassterrariums.com, Protean Terrarium Design.
 
I love wire racks, they make life so much easier. Those Protean Terrariums look very nice, I have been converting over to modified Martymade cages, I don't like the lids at all, otherwise they are nice.

As you pointed out over breeding is an issue, careful observation can avoid issues if they crop up. I've yet to 'need' to separate a pair, but I do keep an extra enclosure ready for any pairs that need alone time or recovery.

I do think diet plays a big part in recovery and weight maintenance post breeding, as well I don't maintain year round breeding temperatures, they simulate seasonal differences to as close as I feel is possible, this keeps breeding localized to late spring and early summer.

I doubt it is possible to have an enclosure large enough for more than one male of nearly any gecko species. They will find each other sooner than we would find just one of them.

Maurice Pudlo
 

spinoses

New member
I keep them separate, i put them together when they need to mate,
then i wait to first two eggs to clutch, after the females return to her terrarium.
Then wait for 4/5 months before i put them together again.
 
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