One thing I will never understand about some Tokay traders/keepers...

tombo46

New member
As most of us know, Tokays are collected for various reasons, most notably Chinese medicine. This is something that interests me in a few ways but mostly from a cultural standpoint. Having seen first hand the way people think of animals in Cambodia I can see how such practices are acceptable. They simply view animals in a different way to the western world. I also understand that if given the choice between animal welfare and being able to make a healthy living for some it is a very easy choice to make.

One thing I will NEVER understand though is why, when these gecko's are worth so much money, are they kept in such terrible conditions?

I have recently had a couple of e.mails from an Indonesian man who asked me the morph of a specific Tokay from some particularly bad photo's. He explained that he had purchased the animal for a lot of money to keep as a pet.

Looking at the pictures the animal appeared incredibly dirty. I asked for some pictures of it cleaned up as I couldn't quite tell if it was pigment or dirt. It certainly didn't look like pigment! It appeared to be a very dirty leucistic Tokay with blue/grey eyes.

A few days later he e.mailed me some more pictures of the same animal but dead. It had arrived dead and he said it was packaged very badly. It's feed/ankles were all cut and messed up and what appeared to be pigment may well have been damage to the skin through infection or some other cause.

So why when this animal is worth so much money, is it not cared for? Why do they not put the time in to learning how to care properly for these animals?

I spoke to a Tokay trader in the Phillipenes who claimed he had gotten rich from buying and selling Tokays. He had put his kids through school, bought a house/car and seemed to have it made. He also sent me some pictures of his Tokays and their "enclosures". They were being kept in chicken wire "cages" and were absolutely filthy. Males kept with males who had obvious war wounds. Basically all round appalling conditions. When I questioned him on why he doesn't look after his investments he could not give me a straight answer.

It is very sad but I would like to think that these animals are cared for before they are killed and harvested but it seems people never cease to amaze me.
 

Aimless

Super Moderator
if they put more time and money into keeping the geckos in better condition during transport, it brings down the profit margin. they wouldn't be worth so much if they cost more to keep.
 

smcnearn

New member
Having seen first hand the way people think of animals in Cambodia I can see how such practices are acceptable. They simply view animals in a different way to the western world.

I think you said it yourself.

Sean.
 

tombo46

New member
if they put more time and money into keeping the geckos in better condition during transport, it brings down the profit margin. they wouldn't be worth so much if they cost more to keep.

Where's the profit in a dead animal? The leucistic Tokay was worth thousands and yet it died through poor care that would have cost nothing.
 

Riverside Reptiles

Administrator (HMFIC)
You have to keep in mind that "rich" to someone in one of those countries is not what it would be here. Also, the guys catching and selling them to the exporters are not making huge profits. It's not like the guy catching the leucy tokay is getting anywhere near what it would retail for here.
 

billewicz

New member
Truly the guys 'harvesting' Tokay from the jungle get a few pennies per animal. And if you look at how these same 'very poor' people sustain their own lives on the most retched of 'foods', you might understand that they do not have the basic ability to house and care for these animals. You also might see that what we would call basic husbandry is better than their own ability to care for themselves.

In the accounts from folks traveling through Indo-China it is common to hear of families living in a card board box on the side of the road eating the butcher's waist scraps that were thrown on the floor. Drinking soups made from foul smelling, rotting meat and veggies. The kind of bottom of the barrel filth that would make even the most hardened reality show survivor hurl.

________________________________________

I had an agreement with a Tokay collection group/exporter for a couple of years. All the high end animals, all the way down to fancy's and aberrant were well cared for, reasonably healthy and shipped in individual containers. All very uncommon for Tokay but they were going to the greatest extent possible to deliver live, undamaged animals.

Of coarse I was paying top dollar for them. Much more than the US market is typically willing to pay for them. I'm pretty sure I put someone's kid through college. Most likely not to the guy that caught it, but someone over there in the management/export end. I was paying out thousands of dollars to guys that usually make just a few bucks a day. And yes, rich by their standards would most of us be.

Sadly this is no where near the norm for most wild caught Tokay. Even for true blue eyed Leucy's.

You have to keep in mind that "rich" to someone in one of those countries is not what it would be here. Also, the guys catching and selling them to the exporters are not making huge profits. It's not like the guy catching the leucy tokay is getting anywhere near what it would retail for here.
 
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