Leo suddenly not interested in favorite food...worried??

[Whtroze]

Hi all. I have Gunther, a 1 yr old male tang morph Leo. He has always been in good health, has a nice fat tail (and even some small fat bubbles under his armpits), sheds regularly and good, and is super curious of everything and social. His favorite food is crickets. He has little interest in anything else. Just recently I got him to eat some mealworms and pupae to get variety in his diet. He won't eat them out of the dish (although I leave it available for him) so I have to hand them to him. He still was picky tho and always wants his crickets over them.

Normally he eats about 4-6 large crickets every other night. Supplements are: once a week calcium w/D3 dusting, later in week once dusted with Reptile Multi-Vit. I leave a small cap of Calcium w/out D available for him at all times. Fresh water avail at all times.

Temps are around 85-90 F in day, and 70s at night. Humidity range 20-30. Lighting is one red heat bulb only. He does get ambient indirect sunlight from a distant window during the day (although he is good about being in his hide sleeping during the day).

Now the concern. Recently...the last week now...he has appeared to lost interest in the crickets. Only ate one the last few feedings and tonight he didn't eat any. He looks at them, but shows no interest to go after them. I'm worried because he loved his crickets, but now...well I'm just not sure what's going on.

He has gotten slightly slimmer in the last week, but not to a point of concern...although I want to avoid that of course. I was able to get him to eat 5 large mealworms and 2 pupae by handing them to him. He is pooping/peeing each day and it looks normal in size and form. His last shed was a week ago and he sheds about every 2-2 1/2 weeks. Normally doesn't eat much and hides lots the day before. Not expecting a shed for a week yet, so his behavior right now isn't normal. I did check his jaw to make sure he wasn't hurt of anything...jaw looks great...no retained skin, sores, bumps, etc.

If anyone has any advise, I would greatly appreciate it. He isn't looking sickly now, but of course if something is going on, I want to address it ASAP so he doesn't get really sick. Thanks!!!!

 

[cricket4u]

Hi,

Can you fill out this questionnaire? I'll be replying in the AM unless someone else dose. Past my bedtime.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...68527-helping-your-sick-gecko-read-first.html

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Looking forward to Gunther's completed Health Questionnaire /\ and pictures of him and his habitat in order for us to help you guys best.

 

[cricket4u]

Looking forward to Gunther's completed Health Questionnaire /\ and pictures of him and his habitat in order for us to help you guys best.

I just noticed you filled out a questionnaire not so long ago. Did you at least buy the thermostat for the UTH?

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...669-leo-having-fat-storage-issues-advise.html

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Here's the Health Questionnaire from your March 28 thread:

"General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Gunther
Morph: High Yellow...possible Tangerine since does have orange pigment tail base and light patches of orange on back. Well spotted on head and tail, moderate on back.
Gender: Male
Age: approx 1 year
Weight: don't have a scale at home to do grams. He's not too skinny at all....looks nice and full...fat tail.
Total length: approx 8 inches with tail included, approx 6 1/4 inches without tail
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: same as above
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): friend who had since baby. Got from local pet store.
Captive bred or wild caught: Captive

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 24x12x12
Cage (type, size): aquarium tank. Screen top.
Substrate provided: reptile carpet
Types of hiding places provided: dry hide (warm side), cool hide, moist hide (mid temp)..he spends most time in warm dry hide.
Is there a humidity hide? location? yes...mid enclosure length...so get mid temp.
Please describe any other furnishings: big lava rock for climbing. He spends time in hides, on top of hides, and on rock mostly. Sometimes just hangs out in open area.
List recent changes in the environment, if any: none other than move to my ownership 2 months ago. Was stressed at first, but now is adjusted.

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): Red heat light..75wtt on warm side
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): none

Natural lighting
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: yes...window on other side of room.

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarium type, other): Digital probe...ZooMed
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 89-90
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 85-88 day, 75-82 night
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: in low to mid 70s range
What device(s) are used to heat the tank (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH small size under tank warm side, UTH mini size on outside side of tank on warm side (needed a little more to get temp right cause under UTH and light werent getting it done), 75wtt red heat light above warm side.
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): has the sticky feet.
Are you using a thermostat(s)? nope, haven't needed yet...but may consider come summer time (winter right now so in house temp is fairly constant. I don't care to use air conditioners, so heat may need to be turned down in summer due to ambient temp increases)
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Dry warm hide
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? yes about 7-10 degrees by turning mini UTH on side off.

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? yes
Humidity range: 20-25%....I do temporarily increase it when he's getting ready to shed.

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Crickets (large), mealworms available...but he dont care for them.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with?
How often do you feed your gecko? yes. Flukers Cricket Orange Cubes. I also offer fresh carrots and potatoe slice and some dry plain oatmeal.
Gunther currently eats every other night. Mealworms in a dish at all times...he dont eat them tho..at least that I've ever noticed.
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often?
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? ReptoCal by Tetra. Calcium with D3 "shake and baked" on crickets during the week feedings.
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? Currently not leaving any in tank cause all I got is the one with D3
Multivitamins (include brand name)? Reptivite by ZooMed. Given "shake n baked" crickets feeding on weekend.
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: previous owner fed lots of waxworms and only a few crickets. I eliminated the waxworms and made staple diet to be crickets. Trying to get him to eat mealworms, but he's being a picky pooper....likes his crickets too much.

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs:
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? normal
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? normal to lots...he's a piggy, but always was.
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): gain...but this was wanted as he was a tad thin when got him
Regurgitation: nope
Discharge from the eyes or nose: nope
Increased breathing rate or effort: nope
Change in the droppings: nope
Urates
---white or yellowish: white
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: slightly smaller
Abnormal skin color or shedding: has trouble with long toe on each back foot, but otherwise sheds good and complete within an hour of start peeling.
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: nope
Weakness: nope

Previous problems and/or illnesses:
none known
Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: There is a cat in the home...occassional staring contests happen through the enclosure glass. Cat does not and can not have access to get to Gunther tho.
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: none (except mealworms in a dish)
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): n/a
Are any of your other pets ill? nope"

Please update. Thanks.

 

[Whtroze]

I don't have a thermostat for the UTH. Haven't needed it yet. I have a digital thermometer and it can be moved. I check regularly that the ground temp over the UTH as well as other areas of the enclosure to ensure temps are ok. This is something I will be considering since summer is coming where I live and of course I don't want to cook him.

One thing I noticed this morning....his humidity is higher than normal. Up to 50% this morning. This is likely due to the weather is getting nicer (my home is 41%....used to be 30%). With the nice weather coming, this will get higher as summer tends to get humid. Gunther is in a glass enclosure with a screen top. This is so heat can be controlled plus also I have a cat...so a mesh enclosure is not an option.

Could this increase in humidity be the potential problem??? He is not showing any signs of problems breathing like a start of respiratory issues. However, I know the humidity will get worse due to warmer weather coming. I can change his water bowl to a smaller one and remove his moss. Any other ideas how to lower the humidity without disrupting his temperature needs???

Side note: He is really good about showing signs of when he's gonna shed, (dull color, CRANKY, won't eat, won't come out of hide). So I can increase humidity temporarily for him at those times if his moist hide doesn't get it done.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I don't have a thermostat for the UTH. Haven't needed it yet. I have a digital thermometer and it can be moved. I check regularly that the ground temp over the UTH as well as other areas of the enclosure to ensure temps are ok. This is something I will be considering since summer is coming where I live and of course I don't want to cook him.

One thing I noticed this morning....his humidity is higher than normal. Up to 50% this morning. This is likely due to the weather is getting nicer (my home is 41%....used to be 30%). With the nice weather coming, this will get higher as summer tends to get humid. Gunther is in a glass enclosure with a screen top. This is so heat can be controlled plus also I have a cat...so a mesh enclosure is not an option.

Could this increase in humidity be the potential problem??? He is not showing any signs of problems breathing like a start of respiratory issues. However, I know the humidity will get worse due to warmer weather coming. I can change his water bowl to a smaller one and remove his moss. Any other ideas how to lower the humidity without disrupting his temperature needs???

Side note: He is really good about showing signs of when he's gonna shed, so I can increase humidity temporarily for him at those times if his moist hide doesn't get it done.

Are you keeping the water dish on the cool end of the tank? Do you use A/C in your home?

Good that you are considering a thermostat soon. That will provide a more constant environment for your leo. One I may have recommended is the Hydrofarm MTPRTC---available through Amazon.

Definitely keep your leo in the glass tank with the screen top. Would not recommend a mesh cage for a leopard gecko.

What might be your inside humidity levels during the summer?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Please update the questionnaire from your previous thread, so we know how you are managing things now. It is for Gunther's good health that we inquire.

How often are you dusting with the calcium with D3? Any multivitamins?

It is really good if you follow all advice as best you can. If you have questions about why such and such is recommended, please ask.

We are not asking you to spend money for no reason.

 

[Whtroze]

His water dish is on the cool side. Thanks for the rec on Thermostat as I'm sure I will be searching soon and that helps tons. I live in Wisconsin...summer humidity can get as high as in the 80-90%. I don't use air conditioning as I like warm and not a fan of the "stale" air from air conditioners. I'm fine with a fan...so air is circulating. Not sure yet what this will do for inside Gunther's enclosure as this will be his first summer with me.

 

[Whtroze]

Updated Questionaire:

General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Gunther
Morph: High Yellow...possible Tangerine since does have orange pigment tail base and light patches of orange on back. Well spotted on head and tail, moderate on back.
Gender: Male
Age: approx 1 year
Weight: don't have a scale at home to do grams. He's not too skinny at all....looks nice and full...fat tail.
Total length: approx 8 inches with tail included, approx 6 1/4 inches without tail
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: same as above
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): friend who had since baby. Got from local pet store.
Captive bred or wild caught: Captive

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 24x12x12
Cage (type, size): aquarium tank. Screen top.
Substrate provided: reptile carpet
Types of hiding places provided: dry hide (warm side), cool hide, moist hide (mid temp)..he spends most time in warm dry hide.
Is there a humidity hide? location? yes...mid enclosure length...so get mid temp.
Please describe any other furnishings: big lava rock for climbing. He spends time in hides, on top of hides, and on rock mostly. Sometimes just hangs out in open area.
List recent changes in the environment, if any: none

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): Red heat light..75wtt on warm side
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): none

Natural lighting
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: yes...window on other side of room.

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarium type, other): Digital probe...ZooMed
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 89-90
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 85-88 day, 75-82 night
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: in low to mid 70s range
What device(s) are used to heat the tank (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH small size under tank warm side, UTH mini size on outside side of tank on warm side (needed a little more to get temp right cause under UTH and light werent getting it done), 75wtt red heat light above warm side.
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): has the sticky feet.
Are you using a thermostat(s)? nope, haven't needed yet...but may consider come summer time (winter right now so in house temp is fairly constant. I don't care to use air conditioners, so heat may need to be turned down in summer due to ambient temp increases)
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Dry warm hide
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? yes about 7-10 degrees by turning mini UTH on side off.

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? yes
Humidity range: 20-25% normally....I do temporarily increase it when he's getting ready to shed. Recently has gone up to 50%...weather is getting nicer...possibly an issue here.

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Crickets (large), mealworms available...but he dont care for them. Does eat some if handed to him.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with?
How often do you feed your gecko? yes. Flukers Cricket Orange Cubes. I also offer fresh carrots and potatoe slice and some dry plain oatmeal.
Gunther currently eats every other night. Mealworms in a dish at all times...he dont eat them tho..at least that I've ever noticed.
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often?
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? ReptoCal by Tetra. Calcium with D3 "shake and baked" on crickets once a week.
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? Small cap without D3 Zoo Med brand
Multivitamins (include brand name)? Reptivite by ZooMed. Given "shake n baked" crickets once a week.
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: Does ok eating mealworms and pupae if handed to him...not on his own tho that I've noticed. Recently decided not interested in crickets which used to be his favorite.

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: low appetite, not interested in favorite food. About a week and half time now.
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? normal
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? decreased
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): very slight loss
Regurgitation: nope
Discharge from the eyes or nose: nope
Increased breathing rate or effort: nope
Change in the droppings: nope
Urates
---white or yellowish: white
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: slightly smaller
Abnormal skin color or shedding: has trouble with long toe on each back foot, but otherwise sheds good and complete within an hour of start peeling.
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: nope
Weakness: nope

Previous problems and/or illnesses:
none known
Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: There is a cat in the home...occassional staring contests happen through the enclosure glass. Cat does not and can not have access to get to Gunther tho.
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: none (except mealworms in a dish)
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): n/a
Are any of your other pets ill? nope

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Are you using Zoo Med's Reptivite with or without D3? There have been comments that leos do not like the taste of the Reptivite. There have been similar comments with regards to Repashy's multivitamin.

I recommend 2x per week dusting with D3. Can go 1x per week with calcium with D3 and the 2nd time per week with Reptivite with D3. Reptivite with D3 packaging recommends 2-3x per week dusting.

I like the swirl method: Powder in a tall deli cup, then insects, then gently swirl to coat.

Here are some different choices to feed your crickets: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

Gutloading the Feeders versus Feeding the Feeders 24/7
The term gutloading causes some confusion. Feed your feeders a nutritious regular diet all the time to build strong feeder bodies. Then only feed a special GUTLOAD product to the crickets, for example, 1-2 days prior to feeding the crickets to your geckos. T-REX Calcium Plus Cricket Food is a good gutload food. Top off the crickets by lightly dusting with a multivitamin containing D3/vitamin A acetate and phosphorus-free calcium with D3 no more than 2x weekly.

 

[cricket4u]

Temps are around 85-90 F in day, and 70s at night.

Your gecko needs a stable source of heat and a temperature range from cool to warm at all times. This is why a thermostat is very important. It is a necessity, not an option, if not you'll be back here with more problems. Those bubbles of excess are not a good sign, therefore it is crucial that you stabilize these temps. They go off food if the temps are too high or too low. Too high they can become dehydrated or the UTH can even cause burns. Keep in mind that they cannot complain and while you may think everything is great, your gecko can be suffering.

Red heat light..75wtt on warm side

Do you have it connected to at least a dimmer? Do you have an extra digital thermometer monitoring the air temp? If you have noticed some weight loss in a week, there's a good chance his enclosure is overheating at times. If the room warms up, the enclosure temps will rise to extremes without thermostats. Failure to prevent overheating is the top reason leos suffer from dehydration and end up with renal disease, sometimes years later.

 

[Whtroze]

Update: Tonight Gunther showed interest in a cricket!!! He didn't eat it, but he did start to do the "prey drive" hunt tail wiggle. This is a start I think as before he wasn't showing any interest anymore. The humidity did come down from 50% to 40%. So I'm seriously thinking the humidity may be the issue. Gonna switch to a smaller water dish (on cool side of course) and remove the moss. Hopefully this will help in lowering it back to normal. Any suggestions further for controlling humidity would be greatly appreciated.

As for eating....he will still take mealworms if I hand them to him, so till he gets his interest back to the crickets I can just make sure to hand feed him for now with the mealworms to keep his nutrition. Any recommendations of how many he should eat (large mealworms) if that's all he'll eat for now?? He's a year old.

Thanks all for the help. Hopefully this is the start of him feeling better and a simply issue of humidity (which can be fixed).

 

[cricket4u]

Trust me, the humidity at 40-50% is not the problem. We recommend the humidity to be at least 40% avoid dehydration. I've been keeping my geckos with humidity from 40-50% for so many years and never had one go off food. The husbandry problems I mentioned in the previous reply can really have an impact in appetite.

 

[Whtroze]

thank you. I am going to the store tomorrow....gotta get more mealworms. Gonna check into and get the thermostats you mentioned also. The weather is getting weird here now. Today was almost 80F, but tomorrow forecast only 60F. Gotta love Wisconsin weather...(sarcasm). Winter didn't have any issues with controlling temp, now summer sends a challenge.

Side note: his fat bubbles actually are gone now....lost them this week. This I am happy about, but I don't want him to lose anymore. The fat bubbles were not good I know, but I know a fat tail is good, so no more weight loss allowed ;-)

 

[cricket4u]

If the bubbles suddenly disappeared while the temps increased and there has not been any changes in diet, there's a good chance he was underheated/overfed during the winter. I corrected post #12, I wrote thermometer in the second sentence, but what I meant was a thermostat.

 

[Whtroze]

don't doubt that. When I got him (in Feb) there were some problems getting his tank warm enough. Finally got it with adding a UTH on the side on warm side of tank. Not sure what they were before I got him. Since then temps have been good and stable. Temps not really increasing yet in his enclosure (just the humidity). Will be watching tho as summer comes and ambient temps increase and adjust his enclosure temp as needed with thermostats added if needed.

 

[Whtroze]

New update:
Gunther appears to be doing better. This morning he had a HUGE poop!! He normally poops once a day, but I admit he hadn't for 3 days (did "pee" tho in that time). I had figured it was likely due to him not eating much other than the mealworms I handed to him. So I put him in some shallow water last night just to make sure he wasn't having an issue with constipation. Appears that may have been an issue. Probably due to the change in diet from crickets to mealworms I assume as he never had that issue before.

He still isn't eating the crickets...still showing no interest. Handing him mealworms on the other hand...he happily eats tho if I hand them to him (actually almost got my finger nabbed for not being quick enough...hehehe). Kinda wish he'd eat them out of the shallow dish...which he wont...but oh well. Gonna get new crickets (the one I have are getting old now) and see if he will want those. Maybe there's something wrong with the crickets instead of Gunther since he eats the worms with no problem. Will have to wait a few days tho...cause he's getting ready to shed and expect it in a day or 2. He doesn't eat well right before the shed.
Either way...just letting you all know...he seems to be doing better. Any ideas on other variety other than mealworms incase he decides not to go back on crickets?? I'm in wisconsin and the stores don't seem to have much for variety that I've been able to find...mealworms (all sizes), superworms, earthworms, crickets.
Thanks again everyone for the help and advise.

 

[cricket4u]

don't doubt that. When I got him (in Feb) there were some problems getting his tank warm enough. Finally got it with adding a UTH on the side on warm side of tank. Not sure what they were before I got him. Since then temps have been good and stable. Temps not really increasing yet in his enclosure (just the humidity). Will be watching tho as summer comes and ambient temps increase and adjust his enclosure temp as needed with thermostats added if needed.

I don't think you're understanding. A thermostat is needed to prevent burns, fires and so that he is allowed proper digestion time. It's part of providing good husbandry to your pet. It's impossible for a human to control temps on a uth. I highly doubt that you're going to sit next to the tank 24/7 watching the thermometer , unplugging the uth every time it gets too hot.
.
You can order variety on line. Google

http://www.mulberryfarms.com/