Ok so I bought a gecko off this kid who never fed her, she has two bones that pop out of her back and she walks with a HORRIBLE limp, will she survive? I can post videos of her walk, please can anyone tell me what I can do to help her recovery? I've given her a lot of calcium so far.
Malnourished and limping
- Thread starter Grell
- Start date
Embrace Calamity
New member
She needs to see a vet ASAP to be properly assessed - a knowledgeable reptile vet. It's possible that with proper supplementation, she'll be okay, but it's also possible that her condition (probably Metabolic Bone Disease) is too far advanced for her to ever be comfortable. We can't tell you that with certainty. She also might need more advanced care for her condition (if it's treatable) than you can give at home. Do you have any experience with leopard geckos or MBD?
~Maggot
~Maggot
Embrace Calamity
New member
Well not all MBD is as simple as "give supplements." The gecko will probably need radiographs to determine the severity of the condition. Sometimes injections are needed, which will need vet instruction. Or, it's possible that the gecko is too far gone, and it will need humanely euthanised. Or it's possible she has injuries unrelated to MBD. Only a vet can tell you what it is and do the euthanisation if necessary. So it is absolutely crucial that the gecko see a vet ASAP - a knowledgeable herp vet, though, not just a regular vet.
In the meantime, the best you can do is give a proper environment and supplements, so I guess filling this out would be a good start so we can get things as good as possible until you can get in with a vet: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...68527-helping-your-sick-gecko-read-first.html
~Maggot
In the meantime, the best you can do is give a proper environment and supplements, so I guess filling this out would be a good start so we can get things as good as possible until you can get in with a vet: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...68527-helping-your-sick-gecko-read-first.html
~Maggot
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General Information
Species of lizard:Leopard
Gecko's name:Lizzy
Morph:Mack snow
Gender: Female
Age:Unknown
Weight:22 grams
Total length: 7 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it:
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner):7 inches
Captive bred or wild caught:Captive bred
Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth):20 gallon breeder long
Cage (type, size):
Substrate provided: Astro turf/sand
Types of hiding places provided: Huts and leaf
Is there a humidity hide? location?middle of tank
Please describe any other furnishings: Rocks, a log, water dish
List recent changes in the environment, if any:Moved to another home
Lighting
Artificial lighting Heat lamp
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s):50 W
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window:
Yes
Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage?No
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other):
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide:78F
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 76 F
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 71F
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): Light, rock, UTH
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners):Feet
Are you using a thermostat(s)?No
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Under a rock bridge
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much?By 2 deg.
Humidity
Is the humidity measured? No
Humidity range:
Diet
Insects and worms, list type:Waxworms, mealworms
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:Sawdust
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with?
How often do you feed your gecko? Everyday
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Zoo med Multi-vit and repcal repcalcium
Dusting, and paste everyday
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both?With
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without?With
Multivitamins (include brand name)?With Zoomed
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet:Changed to waxworms
General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: N/A
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? Increased
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? N/A
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): Yes
Discharge from the eyes or nose: No
Increased breathing rate or effort:N/A
Change in the droppings: N/A
Urates
---white or yellowish:White
---size of urates as compared to size of feces:Half
Abnormal skin color or shedding: N/A
Parasites on the skin or in the feces:No
Weakness:N/A
Previous problems and/or illnesses:N/A
Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other animals that are kept in the same cage:
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months):
Are any of your other pets ill?No
Species of lizard:Leopard
Gecko's name:Lizzy
Morph:Mack snow
Gender: Female
Age:Unknown
Weight:22 grams
Total length: 7 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it:
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner):7 inches
Captive bred or wild caught:Captive bred
Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth):20 gallon breeder long
Cage (type, size):
Substrate provided: Astro turf/sand
Types of hiding places provided: Huts and leaf
Is there a humidity hide? location?middle of tank
Please describe any other furnishings: Rocks, a log, water dish
List recent changes in the environment, if any:Moved to another home
Lighting
Artificial lighting Heat lamp
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s):50 W
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window:
Yes
Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage?No
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other):
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide:78F
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 76 F
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 71F
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): Light, rock, UTH
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners):Feet
Are you using a thermostat(s)?No
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Under a rock bridge
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much?By 2 deg.
Humidity
Is the humidity measured? No
Humidity range:
Diet
Insects and worms, list type:Waxworms, mealworms
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:Sawdust
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with?
How often do you feed your gecko? Everyday
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Zoo med Multi-vit and repcal repcalcium
Dusting, and paste everyday
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both?With
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without?With
Multivitamins (include brand name)?With Zoomed
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet:Changed to waxworms
General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: N/A
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? Increased
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? N/A
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): Yes
Discharge from the eyes or nose: No
Increased breathing rate or effort:N/A
Change in the droppings: N/A
Urates
---white or yellowish:White
---size of urates as compared to size of feces:Half
Abnormal skin color or shedding: N/A
Parasites on the skin or in the feces:No
Weakness:N/A
Previous problems and/or illnesses:N/A
Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other animals that are kept in the same cage:
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months):
Are any of your other pets ill?No
Embrace Calamity
New member
1) Okay, be sure to remove any sand. I'm not familiar with "astro turf," so I'm not sure if that's okay or not. Paper towels would probably be the best choice, or reptile carpet temporarily. You don't want to risk her ingesting any of the sand.
2) First, how do you know what your temps are? You said you don't have a thermometer, so where are you getting the temperatures? It's absolutely vital that you monitor the temperatures very closely.
3) I'm not sure how to take your temperatures, since you said you have no thermometer and are using a light and a UTH, so it should be much warmer than what you're describing. But, if they're somehow accurate, they're way too low. The warm side under the warm hide needs to be 88-93. Without proper temperatures, the gecko can't digest its food or use any nutrients given to it. It won't eat because it won't be able to digest its food, and eventually its body will just shut down.
4) The UTH needs to be hooked up to a thermostat (not a thermometer). I assume the UTH is on the warm side (if it's not, it should be), with a hide above it. This will allow the gecko access to belly heat, which it uses to digest its food. A good temperature to set the thermostat to would be 90-91.
5) I'm not sure how many hides the enclosure has, but the minimum is three. There needs to be a humid hide, a warm hide, and a cool hide. Since it's a 20 long, I would recommend adding another dry hide across from the humid hide in the middle to give the gecko more options.
6) Remove the hot rock immediately. They are extremely dangerous. They're known to overheat and burn reptiles, sometimes killing them.
7) Avoid waxworms. They're extremely high in fat but have little nutritional content otherwise. Crickets are a good choice. Mealworms are acceptable, but I would be concerned about the gecko digesting all that chitin.
8) I'm a little confused on the supplements you're listing. It's much more helpful if you just say what's on the container, because I can't find a "Zoo med Multi-vit" or "repcal repcalcium." Is the Zoo Med supplement one of these?: Search Results: Products And which Rep-Cal supplement?: Rep-Cal Supplements
This things are important, but this gecko has advanced MBD. It needs to see a vet ASAP to be properly assessed.
~Maggot
2) First, how do you know what your temps are? You said you don't have a thermometer, so where are you getting the temperatures? It's absolutely vital that you monitor the temperatures very closely.
3) I'm not sure how to take your temperatures, since you said you have no thermometer and are using a light and a UTH, so it should be much warmer than what you're describing. But, if they're somehow accurate, they're way too low. The warm side under the warm hide needs to be 88-93. Without proper temperatures, the gecko can't digest its food or use any nutrients given to it. It won't eat because it won't be able to digest its food, and eventually its body will just shut down.
4) The UTH needs to be hooked up to a thermostat (not a thermometer). I assume the UTH is on the warm side (if it's not, it should be), with a hide above it. This will allow the gecko access to belly heat, which it uses to digest its food. A good temperature to set the thermostat to would be 90-91.
5) I'm not sure how many hides the enclosure has, but the minimum is three. There needs to be a humid hide, a warm hide, and a cool hide. Since it's a 20 long, I would recommend adding another dry hide across from the humid hide in the middle to give the gecko more options.
6) Remove the hot rock immediately. They are extremely dangerous. They're known to overheat and burn reptiles, sometimes killing them.
7) Avoid waxworms. They're extremely high in fat but have little nutritional content otherwise. Crickets are a good choice. Mealworms are acceptable, but I would be concerned about the gecko digesting all that chitin.
8) I'm a little confused on the supplements you're listing. It's much more helpful if you just say what's on the container, because I can't find a "Zoo med Multi-vit" or "repcal repcalcium." Is the Zoo Med supplement one of these?: Search Results: Products And which Rep-Cal supplement?: Rep-Cal Supplements
This things are important, but this gecko has advanced MBD. It needs to see a vet ASAP to be properly assessed.
~Maggot
Embrace Calamity
New member
I was wondering about that too. I think mealworms come with some kind of stuff in the container that looks kind of like sawdust, right? I assumed that's what the OP meant.
~Maggot
Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
Please remove any calcium with D3 or any multivitamins from the tank right away. Overdosing is possible.
Do you have Zoo Med's Reptivite and Zoo Med's Repticalcium? Do both contain vitamin D3? Use light dustings of these D3 containing supplements only 2x weekly total. Be sure to read the bottles for specifics.
Change the mealworm bedding to bran or oatmeal, something nutritious they can actually eat.
Waxworms are pure fat. Here are better feeders:
Feed adult leos 3 times per week and young leos just about every day. For both young leos and adults, lightly dust crickets, roaches, grasshoppers, silkworms, hornworms, butterworms, mealworm pupae, freshly molted mealworms, and locusts (smallest locusts possible) with phosphorus-free calcium with vitamin D3 (and multivitamins including vitamin A acetate) according to the directions on the container.
The proper size of an UTH for a 30 inch long tank is 1/3 the length of the tank and as close to the width as possible. Your UTH is either not working or too small.
Temperatures for all leos regardless of size:
88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end
Leave the UTH on 24/7. Can turn off overhead heating at night.
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Ok so I measure the temperature with a stick thermometer in the morning then around lunch and before I hop into bed, so that's where those come from. I can certainly raise the temp, I live in a really hot area but it ended up being really cold the day I brought her in.
I've been feeding her mealworms with 2 wax worms, is this ok? The last owner fed her only once a week. The kids therapist said it was a good idea for him to get one but he didn't want it.
Also what I mean by heat rock is I have a rock absorbing heat from the lamp above it for basking purposes, should I remove this as well?
Yes, I feed the worms with whatever they come with in the container. I didn't know if you could buy gut loader for them, never seen it.
I dust her insects everyday with the calcium because of how brittle her bones seem to be. Do I need to reduce this untill I can get her to the vet?
Here are the supplements: Rep-Cal Supplements Calcium and Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins at PETCO
I've been feeding her mealworms with 2 wax worms, is this ok? The last owner fed her only once a week. The kids therapist said it was a good idea for him to get one but he didn't want it.
Also what I mean by heat rock is I have a rock absorbing heat from the lamp above it for basking purposes, should I remove this as well?
Yes, I feed the worms with whatever they come with in the container. I didn't know if you could buy gut loader for them, never seen it.
I dust her insects everyday with the calcium because of how brittle her bones seem to be. Do I need to reduce this untill I can get her to the vet?
Here are the supplements: Rep-Cal Supplements Calcium and Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins at PETCO
I used a therm-stick at 3 different times in the day. I'll fix everything as listed. My heatrock isnt a plug in one it's just a rock beneath a heat lamp.
I'm using the wax worms since shes really underweight, she was only fed once a week by the last owner if they even remembered. I also feed her some mealworms. Should I be feeding her differently? Also I give her supplements calcium everyday and vitamins every other since her bones seem very brittle.
I figured I could keep her on the calcium untill I could take her to the vet?
Also yes the worms fed on the sawdust inside the containter they come in, I didn't know you could gut load them.
Also about the heat issue, it was really cold the day I brought her home with me. The temp has risen since then a lot. My house is always warm except when I leave my window open!
I'm using the wax worms since shes really underweight, she was only fed once a week by the last owner if they even remembered. I also feed her some mealworms. Should I be feeding her differently? Also I give her supplements calcium everyday and vitamins every other since her bones seem very brittle.
I figured I could keep her on the calcium untill I could take her to the vet?
Also yes the worms fed on the sawdust inside the containter they come in, I didn't know you could gut load them.
Also about the heat issue, it was really cold the day I brought her home with me. The temp has risen since then a lot. My house is always warm except when I leave my window open!
Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
I used a therm-stick at 3 different times in the day. I'll fix everything as listed. My heatrock isnt a plug in one it's just a rock beneath a heat lamp.
I'm using the wax worms since shes really underweight, she was only fed once a week by the last owner if they even remembered. I also feed her some mealworms. Should I be feeding her differently? Also I give her supplements calcium everyday and vitamins every other since her bones seem very brittle.
I figured I could keep her on the calcium untill I could take her to the vet?
Also yes the worms fed on the sawdust inside the containter they come in, I didn't know you could gut load them.
Also about the heat issue, it was really cold the day I brought her home with me. The temp has risen since then a lot. My house is always warm except when I leave my window open!
Waxworms are not good even for underweight geckos. It is like humans eating ice cream to put on weight, which they will. No surprise. Leos can become addicted to waxworms and then refuse nutritious prey. Get some hornworms for increasing weight.
Zoo Med's Repticalcium with D3 is good 2x per week. Please read the Leopard Gecko Caresheet linked below in my signature for specifics on calcium and vitamins.
Are you leaving calcium with D3 in the enclosure?