Huge tokay female
- Thread starter ciliatus
- Start date
Green-eyed Gecko
New member
hey ingo,
i'm pretty sure it's a beautiful male!
i'm pretty sure it's a beautiful male!
Green-eyed Gecko
New member
hermaphrodite for sure!
billewicz
New member
hey ingo,
i'm pretty sure it's a beautiful male!
I've has a couple females come my way that were terribly overweight just like this girl here.
It's a shame 'cause she has great normal 'blue' genetics but see's probably too fat to breed.
Nice photo work though!
Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
I'd say female
billewicz
New member
100% sure, female! All Tokay have pores to some degree but males would have the waxy excretions which would be very obvious on a Tokay of this size.
The test: You can run your finger tip from the vent up towards the belly. The "V" will feel smooth on an adult female and will have waxy, sticky bumps on the male. Visually, it looks like each pore is like the tip of a tube and some of the contents has been squeezed out.
(As a side note, her substrate should be kept dry around her hide or normal hiding place. Overweight Tokay tend to rest their tails on the ground and face up because they have trouble holding their tails strait up when facing down. Or, they just can't 'hang' anymore on the glass or hide area. The tail will rot if it's sitting on a moist substrate.)
XoVictoryXo
New member
Wow! she is incredibly beautiful!
I would probably put her on a mini diet lol but I am no expert!
I would probably put her on a mini diet lol but I am no expert!
ciliatus
New member
Thx for all the kind comments and advices so far. Normally i really dont have a problem sexing tokays. Specially adult ones. Its just that i couldnt see anything with the magnifying glass but the macro photos showed some black dots, plus the big head made me wonder...
Like Ingo i dont really consider her fat. She presses herself against the surface on the images, that might make her look heavier. And she might have good use for any extra weight because we noticed a growth in the mouth when we picked her up, and the vet said we should get it out.
Knowing how easily stressed tokays are we still hesitate a little what would be the best thing to do. If relocation, quarantine plus surgery would be too much.
Here some pictures:
Like Ingo i dont really consider her fat. She presses herself against the surface on the images, that might make her look heavier. And she might have good use for any extra weight because we noticed a growth in the mouth when we picked her up, and the vet said we should get it out.
Knowing how easily stressed tokays are we still hesitate a little what would be the best thing to do. If relocation, quarantine plus surgery would be too much.
Here some pictures:
billewicz
New member
Yes I too have bigger females but they are trim for their size. It's not the actual weight but the heavy rolls of fat on her belly and under her chin. Sorry, but this girl is obese.
billewicz
New member
This discussion makes me curious: From my (~30+ yrs) experiences with tokays, I always concluded that other than for most lizard species, obesity neither reduces breeding success nor longevity in tokays.
My fattest females always tendend to be my best breeders and the male I aquired as a large adult import in 1995 is not slender and still going strong (albeit he may now have lost his fertility).
What are your thoughts on that?
Any negative experience with "heavy" tokays?
Best
Ingo
My fattest females always tendend to be my best breeders and the male I aquired as a large adult import in 1995 is not slender and still going strong (albeit he may now have lost his fertility).
What are your thoughts on that?
Any negative experience with "heavy" tokays?
Best
Ingo
billewicz
New member
I have acquired 2 obese females that were long term captives. Both were normals and neither ever bred in the 3 to 4 years I had them before they passed.
These girls had excessive fat rolls even when resting in a straight line. (I make this distinction from really big/large/heavy but trim looking Tokay.)
They would no longer hide up in their various vertical spots but rather rested their back legs and tail on the ground and lean up on a vertical surface. They both did this for about a year. Both eventually had on going tail rot issues.
They could have been very old since I had no way of telling. I have a couple of males that I'm watching to keep from getting this way but I've never seen this in the rest of the 60 adult female wild caught or domestically produced and raised Tokay here. Of coarse almost all the adult females are in active breeding cycles and all their reserves go into egg production. But the 10 or so normals that are not being bred are not overweight either.
So, out of 200 adult Tokay I have a couple of males that are heavy. Enough food is provided to feed the paired female as well. The problem is the males tent to eat every thing in sight quickly so extra is added to the enclosure to get her her share. In both cases the females are shy. Usually most of my female can be found right at the door when food is coming around.
I can't say for certain that obesity will limit breeding or shorten the life of a Tokay. I can only say that the two that I had were not able to breed and seemed to die sooner than expected.
Now I have to ask what seems to me to be the obvious question. Is there really any animal on this planet that is not seriously negatively effected by being obese?
These girls had excessive fat rolls even when resting in a straight line. (I make this distinction from really big/large/heavy but trim looking Tokay.)
They would no longer hide up in their various vertical spots but rather rested their back legs and tail on the ground and lean up on a vertical surface. They both did this for about a year. Both eventually had on going tail rot issues.
They could have been very old since I had no way of telling. I have a couple of males that I'm watching to keep from getting this way but I've never seen this in the rest of the 60 adult female wild caught or domestically produced and raised Tokay here. Of coarse almost all the adult females are in active breeding cycles and all their reserves go into egg production. But the 10 or so normals that are not being bred are not overweight either.
So, out of 200 adult Tokay I have a couple of males that are heavy. Enough food is provided to feed the paired female as well. The problem is the males tent to eat every thing in sight quickly so extra is added to the enclosure to get her her share. In both cases the females are shy. Usually most of my female can be found right at the door when food is coming around.
I can't say for certain that obesity will limit breeding or shorten the life of a Tokay. I can only say that the two that I had were not able to breed and seemed to die sooner than expected.
Now I have to ask what seems to me to be the obvious question. Is there really any animal on this planet that is not seriously negatively effected by being obese?
XoVictoryXo
New member
also isnt fatty liver disease fatal and common in obesity? (speculating)
billewicz
New member
... and the list goes on!