Loki the Tokay: Bad to the Bone

[Ophiomancer]

Or rather, Loki the Tokay: His Bones Are Bad.



Picked this guy up 1/26/2014 at the Manchester NH Reptile Expo. He was sold to me as a long term captive, for $15. I knew he was going to come with vet bills, but I was expecting internal parasites, not anything outlandish. He's been eating like a pig and climbing around his terrarium just fine in the time that I've had him, so I wasn't too worried.

Took him to the vet this morning. Noticed as I was transferring him to his travel enclosure that his left elbow was swollen. I have handled him only once, and briefly, since I got him, otherwise leaving him alone to get settled in, with a towel over his enclosure most of the time to reduce stress. Because of this, I'm not certain when the swelling started, though I did not notice it when I bought him, and I did look him over for lumps and bumps at the time.

Fortunately, I made sure to take him to a vet who regularly treats reptiles, and knows her stuff. When the examination got to his elbow, she immediately told me, "This is not good." With my permission, she whisked him off to be x-rayed.



As you can see, his left elbow is basically disintegrating due to a severe bone infection, and the vet thinks the right one looks dodgy as well. Any damage done is permanent, but with a long, loooooong course of medication he may recover to live a happy and active life. Or, he may not. Bone infections are bad news.

He may also have parasites, but the lab results won't be in until next week. He weighs 58 grams, but the vet didn't think that he looks too skinny, he's just either small or not done growing yet. They also aspirated some fluid from his elbow for testing, since it would be helpful to know exactly what kind of infection he has. Until there's further news, he's on Enrofloxacin (Baytril) for the infection, and Meloxicam for pain management.

If anyone has advice on long-term care of a sick Tokay, or tips for giving oral meds, I would love to hear them. And if any of you folks have had to treat reptiles for bone infections, I'd appreciate anything you could share about the experience, and whether the animals recovered or not.

Other than that, I plan to keep this thread updated with his progress. I just hope Loki's story will have a happy ending.

 

[Aimless]

poor guy. I hope he heals up well for you. Tokays are pretty tough, and IME you can dose them if you can get them to gape at you without stressing them out too badly. however, Ethan and Mike will have your best advice as they both have a lot more experience than I.

 

[Ophiomancer]

Evening update: His color is actually much better than it's been all week. He must have been in terrible pain, but the Meloxicam probably helped. Of course, it has also made him very lethargic, which I was told to expect. I just hope that the meds don't completely kill his appetite, although it's a common side effect Gave him a few roaches tonight, and a hornworm, so hopefully some of those will disappear by morning.

I am dreading giving him oral meds daily, because instead of gaping his response to being prodded is to bark once and then lock his jaw shut most of the time. Vet showed me how to coax his mouth open with a tongue depressor, and how to trickle meds into his mouth from the side if that fails, but it's going to be an uphill battle, I can tell.

 

[billewicz]

The vet is on the right track from my experience. If the Tokay is otherwise healthy and a fighter, the infection will subside with the antibiotics. Metabolic bone disease is common in poorly kept, and inported Tokay. As are injuries when too many imports are stuffed into a pillow case from Indonesia, through shipping, US customs, the importer and then off to the show.

If there are parasites then it is most likely not a true long term captive. Or certainly not a well cared for one. If it was, it would have healed from being overcrowded in shipping and would have cleared any heavy parasitic infestation. I suspect its been kept in overcrowded conditions for some time and has not received any supplementation. But all that is in the past.

I had a nice powder blue come in with a broken lower jaw. There was nothing left in terms of any bone mass to work with. Yet after a splint was sewn in, lots of meds and 4 months of being hand feed Oxbow critical care for insectivores, she has made a full recovery.

As for orals, I just hold the Tokay and drop the meds and supplements in the gaping mouth. Then I just quietly wait till they close up and swallow. Sometimes you can just place them back onto a a vertical structure and they will swallow on there own while they sit and wait for the coast to clear.

Good luck and thank you for investing into your new charge.

 

[Ophiomancer]

I had a nice powder blue come in with a broken lower jaw. There was nothing left in terms of any bone mass to work with. Yet after a splint was sewn in, lots of meds and 4 months of being hand feed Oxbow critical care for insectivores, she has made a full recovery.

That's really encouraging! I haven't heard of Oxbow's critical care for insectivores, although I've seen the carnivore variety before. Any idea where I could purchase this from? And do you add anything to it, or use as is?

Thanks so much for your reply. I'll keep fighting for Loki and hope for the best.

 

[Ophiomancer]

Monday Update: Loki was a bit more energetic this morning

Instead of freezing when I reached in to restrain him for his meds, he made some evasive maneuvers, and then raced up my arm and around back to hang out between my shoulder blades. Had to peel myself out of my cardigan to get hold of him

He also ate 2 roaches last night, so I am hopeful that I won't have to get every single calorie into him via handfeeding. Overall, I am feeling cautiously optimistic. Thanks everybody who has given me advice, and I will continue to keep you posted!

 

[Ophiomancer]

Loki was quite feisty this morning when I gave him his meds, which I was happy to see. I had no idea that Tokays could jump 3+ feet from a resting position, but you learn something new every day :lol:

After flinging himself into the miscellaneous junk drawer of my DVD cabinet, he latched onto this green cable (fortunately not plugged into anything), and I snapped a few pics before escorting him back to his cage.



Took him at least half an hour to unclamp his jaws from that cable... Hopefully tomorrow morning will be less of an adventure, no matter how fun the photo op was.

 

[billewicz]

That's really encouraging! I haven't heard of Oxbow's critical care for insectivores, although I've seen the carnivore variety before. Any idea where I could purchase this from? And do you add anything to it, or use as is?

Thanks so much for your reply. I'll keep fighting for Loki and hope for the best.

Sorry, Carnivore care is what you use for Tokay, that are insectivores, not herbivores. I meant to make that point because people have tried to use the herbivore version. Some vets carry the Oxbow product and you can also get it online but you might need a prescription from a vet. Check with the vendor first.

It is a powdered product that you mix with water and I use a syringe with a piece of aquarium air hose on the end, or just a wide syringe to feed. You can leave some in the enclosure as well. Once they start getting better, they will start to lap it up. At that point you can re-introduce crickets.

 

[Ophiomancer]

I picked up some Carnivore Care, and am glad to have it on hand. He's been eating 1-3 dubia roaches a night on his own, thankfully. Trying to get some Turkistan Roaches, which he would probably find more tempting. Wish my Giant Green Banana Roach colony was further along, as he loves those, but I don't have enough to use as feeders on a regular basis.

 

[billewicz]

Well, if he's eating and you're dusting the roaches then you should be well on your way to getting him back on track.

I like the blatta lateralis (a.k.a rusty reds) roaches for Tokay. They are quick movers just as the lights go down which always gets a Tokay to look. Their color stands off the bark, slate and mulch much better too.

 

[Ophiomancer]

Valentine's Day Update: Loki is still eating on his own, but not very much, so I've taken to giving him a few CCs of Carnivore Care in the morning alongside his meds. Ordered a large Blatta lateralis colony that should be shipped next week, weather permitting. I hope he and my leopard geckos will all be enthusiastic about them. None of my critters have been impressed by dubias (too slow, and too big for some of my leos), and I really hate crickets, so I'm hoping this will be a solution that satisfies everybody!

Loki has his second vet appointment on Wednesday. His first fecal test was negative for parasites, but the vet is going to do a second one free of charge to be absolutely certain. If that also comes back clean, I can finally add substrate to his enclosure. I've been keeping it fairly bare bones, so I can sterilize everything regularly. He does have plenty of slate and cork bark to climb, but it would be nice to add some plants.

This morning as I was giving him his meds, he sank his teeth into my shirt and just would not let go. I threw a tea towel over him so he wouldn't feel so exposed, and caught up on my reading for an hour until he relaxed :roll: I'm lucky that he's been more inclined to bite fabric than flesh so far, though I'm sure I'll get tagged eventually.

 

[Ophiomancer]

Redecorated Loki's viv a bit today, since I had him out for meds and a meal of Carnivore Care any way. Here he is looking poleaxed just after I put him back in.

Since I've been dosing him every morning, I've noticed that he has a wee bit of a crossbite. Not sure if that's genetic, an old injury, or further evidence of his bones being messed up. Will ask the vet what she thinks on Wednesday.

 

[billewicz]

Well Tokay can suffer from metabolic bone disease too.

Also, I'll mention this here since it can be an issue with malnourished Tokay. Don't let them have the opportunity to bite down hard on anything. Tokay jaw muscles can be much stronger than their frail bones from lack of good nutrition. When they latch on, the 'sink-their-eyes-into-the-back-of-their-head' type bite, they risk a chance of breaking their jaw bones.

I've had one come in that way and other fresh import actually snap her jaw on my finger. Surgery saved the first but not the second. The first one was the same one I was talking about earlier in this tread. She was on Oxbow for 4 months.

 

[Ophiomancer]

Ouch! Poor girl. Glad she recovered for you. Sad about the second one. Reminds me of when I volunteered at a wildlife rehab facility back in my home state. We'd get hundreds of animals in every year, and only about half of them would recover and be fit for release back into the wild. The odds just aren't as good for wild animals, because stress is a much larger problem than it is with domesticated species, and we don't have as much information on their specific medical needs the way we do a dog's or a horse's.

I would not be at all surprised if Loki's infection stemmed from MBD, since he had multiple problem areas, so something systemic would make sense. I've been gutloading and dusting all feeders with calcium and D3, so I am hoping with time he will be less fragile. Should I add any calcium/multivitamin to the Carnivore Care, or is it best to use as is?

I really appreciate how you've been following this thread and giving advice. The information about weak-boned Tokays being able to break their own jaws is very useful (and scary!). I'm wondering if he's been so disinclined to bite me because he's already injured himself that way in the past. Usually I have more trouble coaxing him to open his mouth than getting him to let go of something.

 

[billewicz]

Critical care has a good balance of calcium to phosphorous for basic nutrition. It does have a little extra calcium for increased bone production.

1:1 Cal to Phos is the normal balanced goal. 2:1 is the high end for increase bone production. Oxbow Carni-Critical Care published amounts are:

Calcium (min) 1.40%
Calcium (max) 1.80%
Phosphorus 1.20%

By the way, a domestic cricket is 1:9 without proper gutloading and dusting.

 

[Ophiomancer]

Quick Update: Took Loki to his second vet appointment yesterday. He gained 6 grams, and the vet and I both hope that this trend continues. The swelling at his elbow also looks a bit more localized, and smaller overall, which is good news. The plan is to keep him on his current meds, since they are probably helping, and go back in 2 weeks for an X-ray to evaluate how effective this course of treatment is, and wether changes need to be made.

 

[Ophiomancer]

Loki is doing well this week. He's regained his appetite, enough that I have stopped supplementing with Carnivore Care for the time being, which in turn means he is less stressed. I've noticed him using more of his enclosure, too.

Other exciting news: The lovely folks at Sabrina's Reptile Kingdom have, at my request, been keeping their eyes peeled for CB Tokays at the shows they attend, and were able to find one juvenile Tokay at the Hamburg PA show this past weekend! So I've now got another little guy (or girl), who is in perfect condition. He's been understandably shy so far, but the crickets disappear by morning, so I'm happy to let him settle in without disturbance. He really is the cutest little thing.

 

[Ophiomancer]

Loki decided my finger was today's brunch special. I just let him hang out and let go at his own pace, since trying to separate his teeth from my flesh just makes him more enthusiastic, and I worry for his jaw.



"I've had enough of your filthy, human medicines! Feel my wrath! Feeeel iiiit."

I'm happy that he seems more energetic these days :lol: I didn't think he was really lethargic when I got him, but now that he's leading me on a merry chase around his viv every morning when it's time for his medicine, I can see that he definitely wasn't at his best. I am hopeful that next week's x-ray will show some healing.

Juvie Tokay is also settling in, and has been tentatively named Gozer. Because it seems that naming Tokays after malevolent gods is how I roll :evil: I have seen him only once, when he popped his head out from behind a piece of slate to bark at me for misting his enclosure. He and Loki are both going through crickets with voracious speed!



"Soon, miserable human, vengeance shall be mine."



"Oh, yes. Soon."

 

[billewicz]

I love his random oversized spots.

 

[Ophiomancer]

Loki had his third vet appointment today. His vet decided to wait a few more weeks on the second x-ray, since he is making slow but steady progress. So, antibiotics for another three weeks, then we'll take a look. He is definitely improving, albeit slowly, and the vet is hopeful that the antibiotics will be all he ends up needing, no surgical intervention necessary. Definitely keeping my fingers crossed!

All of the employees are utterly in love with Loki, despite the feeling not being mutual The vet tech even asked to snap a few pics of him on her phone to show to her friends