New Leo Home with multiple substrate

[monkeystyle]

I set up my new gecko vivarium today. My 2 baby leopard geckos were in a 10 gal tank and I decided they needed more space to adventure in. I got a new 20 gal tank, various succulents, and a couple of climbing decor items.

I was getting rather dizzy reading about all the do's and dont's of leo subtrates. After much research I decided to go with multiple substrates. Various substrate includes ceramic tile along the back, river stones in front, and some reptile carpet along the side. My moist hide includes damp coconut fiber.

All should be easy to clean and it gives multiple textures that my little geckos seem to enjoy.

 

[Completeleopard]

Very nice tank.

1. Do you know about the do not's regarding housing Leo's together?

2. The recommended tank size for ONE Leo is a 20 gallon long (30x12.5x12.5 inches)

3. Please remove any supplement from the tank, Leo can overdose on any supplement.

4. Where is the moist hide located? Needs to be on the warm side, above the UTH.

5. Does the tank have three hides? Warm, cool and warm moist

 

[monkeystyle]

Thank you! My little geckos were quite keen on exploring it once I put them in. 


1. Do you know about the do not's regarding housing Leo's together?

Yes. I purchased both of Leopard geckos from Pet Smart and they are still too young to sex. I am watching carefully for any signs of aggression until I can determine gender. I am hoping for two female geckos to avoid separating them.


2. The recommended tank size for ONE Leo is a 20 gallon long (30x12.5x12.5 inches)

Since both of my little ones are only a month or two old I feel fine housing them in the same tank. If I have two females that get along, I am hoping they can be comfortable living together for some time.


3. Please remove any supplement from the tank, Leo can overdose on any supplement.

There are no supplements in the tank


4. Where is the moist hide located? Needs to be on the warm side, above the UTH.

Currently it is above the UTH


5. Does the tank have three hides? Warm, cool and warm moist

I have several hides that span the cool and warm side

 

[Completeleopard]

That all sounds great!

However, once they are older and fully grown, please be aware that

1. It is recommended to get a bigger tank.

2. Even females can fight.

3. You will need a warm dry hide, a warm moist hide and a cool hide for EACH of them, to decrease the chance of them fighting for the best hides

 

[Olimpia]

I like it! The different textures and climbing things are good enrichment, so good job. I hate it when leopard gecko cages are all sterile and bland, there's nothing for them to do.

 

[JIMI]

I think it's very cute! . Like Olimpia said, it is a very stimulating environment I'm sure your leos really appreciate it! Do your leos attempt to climb the trees? Are they ever successful?:lol:. I imagine that feeding crickets in this enclosure must be difficult!

 

[monkeystyle]

Thank you for the advice! Once they grow up I may indeed have to consider seperate housing. So far I have really enjoyed my new leo friends and want to provide a happy, healthy environment for them!

 

[cricket4u]

Thank you for the advice! Once they grow up I may indeed have to consider seperate housing. So far I have really enjoyed my new leo friends and want to provide a happy, healthy environment for them!

Hello Monkestyle,

Unfortunately, they will come to know their sexes before you do and will not send you a warning.

 

[monkeystyle]

I think it's very cute! . Like Olimpia said, it is a very stimulating environment I'm sure your leos really appreciate it! Do your leos attempt to climb the trees? Are they ever successful?:lol:. I imagine that feeding crickets in this enclosure must be difficult!

It's only day one, but there has been definitely some exploration on the branches. The succulents are in pots that for now seem to be too tall for them to dig around in. I live in las Vegas and wanted to provide another opportunity to increase humidity. It's so dry here. I may have some Godzilla like stomping once they mature so I will see how they do.

I feed them a combination of Phoenix worms and crickets. I'll have to see if the crickets can stay hidden, but my Leo's are quite the hunters so hopefully I won't have an issue. Again it's something to be mindful of in this new gecko wonderland!

 

[monkeystyle]

Hello Monkestyle,

Unfortunately, they will come to know their sexes before you do and will not send you a warning.

Do you recommend that I remove one and keep it in another tank for now or do you think I may still have a few months to keep them together due to their young age?

 

[JIMI]

I'm interested in seeing whether those succulents will help you boost the humidity in your enclosure or not. I also live in Las Vegas so I understand the pains of maintaining humidity in this dry climate! Once I build my larger enclosure I was planning on experimenting with various succulents to see if that would help at all. I'm currently using a humidifier to keep up the humidity, but once that goes off the humidity quickly drops again!

 

[monkeystyle]

I'm interested in seeing whether those succulents will help you boost the humidity in your enclosure or not. I also live in Las Vegas so I understand the pains of maintaining humidity in this dry climate! Once I build my larger enclosure I was planning on experimenting with various succulents to see if that would help at all. I'm currently using a humidifier to keep up the humidity, but once that goes off the humidity quickly drops again!

I'll let you know if the 3 small succulent planters make a difference in tank humidity. I also put a damp towel over part of the screen and a couple of fake plants inside to increase humidity as well. I have two damp hides that they spend a lot of time and which seems to be their sleeping spots of choice.

I did do quite a bit of substrate research because I thought a vivarium with live plants would help increase humidity, but I was restricted to using substrates that would not be harmful to my young leos so I used the small pots and succulents.

 

[JIMI]

Correct, a planted vivarium is not the best choice for our gecko friends. That would probably raise the humidity too high making them susceptible to a respiratory infection and not to mention the risk of impaction. Many people, however, build a background out of polystyrene and grout or expanding foam with built in pots so that the use of soil is restricted to those areas. It is also much closer to mimicking their natural environment. I would love to provide that for my leo, but unfortunately the cost will be much too high for an enclosure of the size I'm building and I'd much rather use that money to purchase the necessary equipment for his new enclosure so he's just going to have to make due with pots:biggrin:. I'm sure that it's easier to keep clean which is more important than the aesthetics!

If I may add, I also think that it will be much safer for your leos if they were in separate enclosures. They could both be males, who knows? As Cricket said, they will know their genders before you do. It is even best to house females alone. These situations are sometimes considered as ticking time bombs because one day your leos could be fine with each other and the next morning you could wake up to find a dead or injured leo! It could sometimes seem that they enjoy their cage mate, but in reality it is most likely adding unnecessary stress. Of course it is ultimately your decision.

 

[cricket4u]

Do you recommend that I remove one and keep it in another tank for now or do you think I may still have a few months to keep them together due to their young age?

Thanks for taking this in consideration. To be honest, I do not like the idea of moving one to a 10 gallon nor would I feel comfortable telling you to keep them together. Are you able to purchase another set up similar to this at least soon? With the best interest of your leos in mind, that's what I recommend. If you can afford to go longer, say a 36 long Exo terra instead, it would be best. They can grow at an amazing pace so before you know it, they will be juveniles. At this stage they are larger and quite active; therefore the reason more space is ideal. I'm simply providing you with what I believe it's best for your leos; of course you go with what you can afford.

 

[Solagratia500]

You usually have until about 20grams before you have any trouble start brewing with leos being housed together. Also females can be housed together and be ok as long as they have extra room. I breed and keep my females in a small colonies in the off season and have yet to encounter any aggression. They have more aggression towards males. That said if it's a male and a female I still wouldn't house them together. Otherwise that's a pretty awesome set up. I don't know why but I love that little door on the mesh top(simplest things amuse me I guess ) good luck with them!

 

[Nynecho]

You know, if you really want to know the gender, you could try candling the tails. I have been able to find out what gender my babies are with a 100% accuracy rate by just shining a light through there to see if you can see hemipenes. Sometimes a gecko is too thick or not translucent enough for it to work, but you might as well try it out. (and I wouldn't worry too much about the size of their enclosure, most of the time breeders keep multiple leos in 12 court tubs, so yours have plenty of space. Even a ten gallon is adequate.) And if you need to separate them, create a barrier. Use some sort of material (glass, wood, cardboard) to create a wall in the center of the tank, and put the uth in the middle to be shared. This works for babies most of the time (although make sure they can't climb it, I had a stubborn hatchling that could scale a cardboard barrier that was a foot tall.)

 

[Completeleopard]

Ten gallons are OK for baby - juvenile , but not a full size Leo .

The advantages of a 20 gallon is, more space to roam, more activity to do, increased exercise, easier to create the correct temp gradient.

We take these Gecko's on, therefore, as responsible owners, we should give the Leo the best enclosures and best care we can. Just because some breeders keep Leo's in small cages, doesn't mean everyone else should.

 

[Olimpia]

Just because some breeders keep Leo's in small cages, doesn't mean everyone else should.

I would agree with the above. Breeders can keep animals or breeding groups in plastic shoe boxes if they want but as pet owners of a handful of geckos we can do better, I think. It's not like 20 gallon L tanks are expensive, and make a better minimum for an adult gecko with a little more room to provide all the appropriate hides and still have walking around room.

 

[JIMI]

I agree with Completeleopard and Olimpia. A ten gallon is not adequate for a single leo. Just because breeders keep groups of leopard geckos in 12 quart tubs it does not mean it is okay for us to do so as well. I know my leo would be miserable in a ten gallon. I currently have him in a 40 breeder and he recently started appearing bored! It is our responsibility to mimic the environment that their bodies are built to survive in. As Completeleopard mentioned, a proper temperature gradient cannot even be established in a small 10 gallon. Temperatures are very important so a ten gallon should not even be considered as a means of housing if we will end up compromising on an important detail that is so detrimental to their health.

We must consider the happiness of the leopard geckos as well. An unhappy leo will become stressed and as a result develop illness. Even if they are small they are not okay with being housed in a small enclosure. I know many would disagree, but, in my opinion, keeping a leopard gecko in a ten gallon is the same thing as trapping it. They're true home is large and beautiful. I understand that we cannot give them an enclosure the size of their original homes, but we can try to give them something that is equally as comfortable and safer.

I do not like the idea of keeping two leos together for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. They are solitary creatures; therefore, they do not appreciate the company of another leo. Some have gotten lucky and some have woken up to find a dead leo no matter how much they kept an eye out for aggression. We cannot tell what they are thinking so we cannot decide for them that they are friends (That appearance of a smile on their faces fools everyone!). Not to mention the unnecessary stress we could be forcing on them. For me it is just too risky.

Unfortunately many people keep their leos in small bins thinking that it is okay since breeders do it. 20 years (if they even last that long) in a tiny box with other leos is not a good quality of life. Why should we force them to live that way? :sad:

So I say that each leo should have their own space. The bigger the better. That's why I only have one. I wouldn't be able to afford a second right now! Scary just thinking about it. :shock:

This is just my opinion and it is not my intention to stir up any anger or anything of the sort. Just thinking about the welfare of the geckos is all

 

[Nynecho]

Okay I have no clue where you people are getting your facts, but many of them are very outdated...

Leopard geckos sometimes actually get stressed when given too much room. Many actually never really even want to leave a single hide. I am currently keeping my geckos in tanks with at least ten gallons to themselves, and it is ridiculous to say that's too small. Also, about supplements, I have NEVER seen or heard of a leopard gecko overdosing on pure calcium, so it is ALWAYS wise to keep a dish of calcium without D3, so they can get more if dusting and gut-loading isn't enough.

It's amazing how different forums have different groups that seem to accept different "facts" as the norm. I will never ask someone who is doing all they can for their reptile to do MORE and exhaust themselves and their geckos when they are doing a perfectly fine job.

Everyone has different opinions, but ask yourself why a breeder would put their animals in a smaller environment if it would "cause illness" when those animals are their livelihood?

I am about to switch from tanks to tubs, and honestly I think I will be doing my geckos a favor. The tubs hold heat better, so the air wont always be cold, as a lot of tanks have that problem. And having a smaller, less open space makes them more comfortable coming out of their hides. The walls of the tubs aren't as see-through, so they don't get as stressed (more like the walls of a cave, like they're used to in the wild)

And if you really think about it, to make our animals as safe as possible, we tend to go with environments that are nothing like the wild. We don't use sand or packed earth for fear of impaction, we don't use sharp rocks so they don't cut themselves, and we don't let them eat food we find outside. We don't want them to be in their natural habitat, because they're domestic animals. Have you ever held a wild leopard gecko before? Not too pleasant, they are very jumpy and bitey. The wild is a scary place for them, so we tend to make them comfortable, not at-home.