My little girl doesn't seem happy :(

Shijadi

New member
Over the past week, I've been noticing some behavioral differences in my older leo, Nyx. Lately she's been desperately trying to escape her enclosure; climbing up the glass, climbing on the decor to get herself higher up, and she even made a daring leap from a basking platform as if that would lead her to freedom. I've even tried taking her out of the enclosure, but she just freaks out and I have to put her back. I can't tell if she's just bored or seriously unhappy, and I'm worried she's going to hurt herself.

Nyx is eating and pooping normally, temperatures and humidity levels in the tank are normal, and there's always a constant source of clean water. From what I can tell, there's no other physical abnormalities; she's a perfectly healthy leo.

If the case is that she's bored, I think it's because she might be outgrowing some of the hides and climbable bits. My plan this weekend is to make my own custom tank landscape with built in hides out of styrofoam and sealed grout to give that rocky realistic feel.


It's weird, I have this older gecko who apparently is in a continual fuss, and I have this younger hatchling I've barely had for a week; already having a blast crawling over my hands, snarfs his/her(?) food, lives in a plastic tub encloser i made, and seems to be the happiest leo in the world. If anyone has any tips on what I can do to make Nyx happier, please let me know. I don't like to see my little girl unhappy. :(
 

Completeleopard

New member
Hello!

The reason foe climbing the tanks walls, jumping and climbing higher can be many reasons:

- Boredom
- Incorrect temp
- to small enclosure

What the size of his enclosure?

What are the temp on his warm side, directly on the floor?

Temp four inches above the ground on the warm side and cool side?
 

Shijadi

New member
The tank is a 10 gallon 20x10x12, floor on warm side is about 90, 80-85 a few inches up and on the cool side. At night, around 80 on warm, 75 on cool.
 

Completeleopard

New member
1. It is recommended to house Leo's in a 29 gallon long (30x12.5x12.5")

Please fill out this questionairre


Leopard Gecko Questionnaire

General Information
Species of lizard:
Gecko's name:
Morph:
Gender:
Age:
Weight:
Total length:
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it:
Source (pet store, breeder, wild caught):
Captive bred or wild :

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth):
Cage (type, size):
Substrate provided:
Types of hiding places provided:
Is there a humidity hide? location?
Please describe any other furnishings:
List recent changes in the environment, if any:

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s):
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window:

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage?
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other):
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide:
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other):
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners):
Are you using a thermostat(s)?
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time?
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much?

Humidity
Is the humidity measured?
Humidity range:

Diet
Insects and worms, list type:
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with?
How often do you feed your gecko?
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often?
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both?
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without?
Multivitamins (include brand name)?
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet:

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs:
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased?
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased?
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss gain):
Discharge from the eyes or nose:
Increased breathing rate or effort:
Change in the droppings:
Urates
---white or yellowish:
---size of urates as compared to size of feces:
Abnormal skin color or shedding:
Parasites on the skin or in the feces:
Weakness:

Previous problems and/or illnesses:

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other that are kept in the same cage:
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months):
Are any of your other pets ill?
 

Shijadi

New member
Leopard Gecko Questionnaire

General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard gecko
Gecko's name: Nyx
Morph: High Yellow
Gender: Female
Age: 6-7 months
Weight: N/A
Total length: 7-8 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: 3-4 inches
Source (pet store, breeder, wild caught): store, Petsmart
Captive bred or wild : Captive

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 20x10x12 inches
Cage (type, size): glass tank, 10 gallon
Substrate provided: slate and ceramic tile
Types of hiding places provided: 1 dry warm, 1 humid warm, 1 cool dry
Is there a humidity hide? location?: warm side
Please describe any other furnishings: 1 water water bowl, moss fills awkward gaps so Nyx doesn't get stuck (not sprayed)
List recent changes in the environment, if any: N/A

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): 60W
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): N/A
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: yes

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage?
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): Zilla analog thermo/hygro combo
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 90
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 80-85
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 80-85 (usually more towards 80)
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): N/A
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): N/A
Are you using a thermostat(s)? N/A
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Warm Dry
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? about 10 degrees F

Humidity
Is the humidity measured?
Humidity range: wavers from 40-60% , usually more humid when I open the tank for feeding, then dries back out

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: mealworms, crickets, occasional waxworms to keep up tail fat
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: crickets are given apple and potato slices, worms are packages with meal mix
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? Not sure
How often do you feed your gecko? Once a day
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Calcium, dusted on insects, very small amount dusted on floor tile
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Fluker's with D3
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? with D3
Multivitamins (include brand name)? N/A
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: N/A

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs:
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? increased
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? normal
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss gain): no
Discharge from the eyes or nose: no
Increased breathing rate or effort: no
Change in the droppings: no
Urates
---white or yellowish: white
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: about half size of feces
Abnormal skin color or shedding: no
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no
Weakness: N/A

Previous problems and/or illnesses: none

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other that are kept in the same cage: N/A
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): New leopard gecko hatchling purchased 5 days ago, lives in separate enclosure out of sight
Are any of your other pets ill? no
 

Completeleopard

New member
Thank you for filling out the questions.

. Unfortunately, analogue thermometers are not accurate, digital thermometers with a probe are recommended. This means your temps could be wrong.

. Albers poultry feed is highly recommended to feed to insects . Wax Worms are fatty and addictive to your Leo, instead use Horn worms as a treat.

. How often do you dust?

. Remove the calcium from the tank , Leo's can overdose.

. You need to supplement with Multivitamins as well, they include very important supplements.


Is the climbing etc at night time ? It could be your Leo is just beginning to settle in and become more adventurous. But other things need to be changed to rule them out.


Diet.



Gutloading the Feeders versus Feeding the Feeders 24/7
The term gutloading causes some confusion. Feed your feeders a nutritious regular diet all the time to build strong feeder bodies. Then only feed a special GUTLOAD product to the crickets 48 hours prior to feeding the crickets to your geckos. T-REX Calcium Plus Food for Crickets is the only proven gutload food at this time (July 2013). When gutloading with T-REX Calcium Plus Food for Crickets, use only a dampened paper towel to provide moisture! Any fruits or veggies added for moisture at the gutload time will only hamper your crickets from eating the T-REX product.




Supplementing


Lightly dust crickets and Blaptica dubia with Zoo Med's supplements like this:
1. Monday - Repti Calcium with D3 adjusted for your gecko's weight
2. Thursday - Repti Calcium with D3 adjusted for your gecko's weight
3. PLAIN Reptivite (multivitamin) with A acetate adjusted for your leo's weight: Spread out the lightly dusted Reptivite multivitamin crickets over the course of a week. Use the Reptivite (multivitamin) very sparingly.


Thermometer


For $35 the Bean Farm (877-708-5882, - The Bean Farm) sells a Cooper brand thermometer/hygrometer combination that takes both readings at the probe Digital Panel Thermometer/Hygro - Thermometers - The Bean Farm
 

Shijadi

New member
Her activity is mostly at night, but I've had Nyx for almost 3 months so I doubt she is unsettled in her home like a hatchling.

I dust her food every other day, except on weekends which I just give her plain insects. I'm pretty sure that the mealworms I get are already living in a mix of poultry feed, cornmeal and oatmeal (armstrong brand I believe), will it suffice to add produce slices? I assume that would give extra vitamins and moisture.

I will try and improve and balance her heating as best I can--I just went and picked up a proper daytime basking bulb, I use infrared at night. I am also planning on getting a UTH in the near future since, sometimes I feel the tiles get a bit chilly sometimes.

I'm also still hoping that an environmental change will help her settle and feel more secure, planning to make a structure that will cover most of the glass wall so she feels more enclosed.
 

Completeleopard

New member
. It takes different amounts of time for leo's to settle in!

. I did not realise you didn't have a UTH. A UTH is a must, Leo's need belly heat to digest their food properly and if temp's aren't correct they will begin to not eat, even though she's eating now you can almost guarentee without belly heat she will stop eating. Without a UTH I also doubt those Temp's are correct, which is why I would recommend a accurate thermometer.

. Leo's do not bask so there's really no need for a basking lamp as long as you supplement with D3. Your enclosure is also too small for a basking lamp.
 

Shijadi

New member
Well...guess I'll be making a return trip to the petstore......

Ugh, kinda freaking out....thought I had all this planned out just fine, now I feel like I'm doing everything wrong ><

I will try and get a UTH soon...
 

Completeleopard

New member
Do not panic, even though I understand it's easy to do!

Go through all these and check everything is correct, once everything is correct your Leo will be happy


1. ===> URGENT: No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium EVER <===

2. Best to buy stuff individually rather than getting a 10 gallon set up kit.

3. Quarantine Recommendations
Any new gecko should be quarantined for a minimum of 60 days prior to introducing her/him to the other geckos in the same cage. 60 days gives adequate time to check for parasites, cryptosporidia, and the beginnings of coccidia plus. 90 days is even better. 3-6 months of quarantine are recommended if your new gecko is imported or wild caught.

4. Never keep 2 males together.

5. Best to keep leos alone. Even 2 females can fight. Leopard geckos do not need companions/"friends".

6. Advise NO particulate substrates (sand, cocopeat fiber, bark chips, et cetera). Risk of impaction simply not worth it. Best: textured ceramic, porcelain, or slate tiles. Paper towels also work. Add paper towel layers to poop spot to facilitate clean up.

7. A temperature gradient from warm to cool is very necessary for maintaining leo health. That is difficult to do within a 10 gallon enclosure. That's why many of us recommend a 30 inch long x 12 inch wide (deep) x 12 inch tall enclosure minimum. That's 76 cm x 31 cm x 31 cm.

Use a digital thermometer probe to measure air temps and ground temperatures. Temperature guns are excellent for measuring surface temperatures. A stainless steel aquarium-type thermometer that has been verified can also be used.

Temperatures for all leos regardless of size:
88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the UTH on 24/7. Can turn off overhead heating at night unless the ambient room temperatures are particularly cool during the night.

8. The UTH + the overhead heating both belong on the warm end of the tank. Your leo will be more active if you provide an UTH for belly heat/digestion as well as an overhead dome. Your leo will benefit from a "warm zone", not just a "warm spot".

9. Leopard geckos are crepuscular and nocturnal...active at dawn, at dusk, and at night. A good photoperiod can be achieved by adding a 5.5 inch diameter dome fixture on the center of the screen with a 15 watt bulb dimmed to half power. That can be plugged into a timer and varied monthly according to this Pakistan link. 11 hours on is good for February.

Click: Sunrise Sunset Daylight Hours of Pakistan -- Timebie

Place the 5.5 inch photoperiod dome right next to your 10 inch diameter ceramic heat emitter dome.

10. UVB lighting is recommended for leopard geckos ONLY IF there is adequate space and opportunities for the leopard gecko to dodge some of the rays like in a 4.5 foot x 2 foot x 2 foot vivarium. A 48 inch long vivarium is a suggested minimum for using UVB for leopard geckos. Never use UVB lighting in addition to a powdered vitamin D3 supplement!

11. Strongly recommend a thermostat! A thermostat will control your under tank heater, provide your leopard gecko with stable and comfortable temperatures, save $ on electricity, and lessen the chance of a house fire from accidental overheating.

12. 3 hides required per leo: warm DRY, warm MOIST, cool DRY. Both warm hides should sit on top of the UTH. Keeping the third hide warm and moist 24/7 is very important! Leos use this for hydration as well as for shedding assist.

13. Too much vitamin D3 is as bad as too little D3. Any multivitamin (Rep-Cal's Herptivite, Exo Terra's (?) multivitamin) which supplies vitamin A in the form of beta carotene is not recommended. Preformed vitamin A acetate is necessary for eye and skin health. Note mod Hilde's posts #22 and #48 right on this thread.

Lightly dust crickets/dubia with Zoo Med's supplements like this:
1. Monday - Repti-Calcium with D3 according to gecko weight on container label
2. Thursday - Repti-Calcium with D3 according to gecko weight on container label
3. PLAIN Reptivite (multivitamin) with A acetate adjusted for your leo's weight: Spread out the lightly dusted Reptivite crickets over the course of a week. Use the Reptivite (multivitamin) very sparingly.

14. Urates should be white, not yellow, and be approximately 1/3 the size of the feces. A healthy feces is dark brown and about the size and shape of 2 tic tacs.

15. Vary the diet: crickets, roaches, grasshoppers, silkworms, hornworms, mealworm pupae, freshly molted mealworms, genuine Phoenix worms, calciworms, and locusts (smallest locusts possible)

16. There are no benefits to feeding waxworms, butterworms, or superworms (pure fat like brie). Hornworms and/or silkworms provide excellent variety. They provide nutrition as well as moisture.

17. Click: Care & Breeding of Feeders: crickets, Blaptica dubia, hornworms, & silkworms

18. Click: USDA Foods link Foods List

19. Diet, DIET, D-I-E-T! A huge factor in the husbandry of any gecko is to feed the feeders (crickets, worms, etc) a very healthy diet 24/7. Variety of feeders is important too. Nutritious feeder bodies transfer like nutrients to your geckos. Consider light supplemental dusting of these feeders as just "icing on the cake".

Remember that, like humans, geckos are what they eat.

20. Consider covering three sides of your leopard gecko's enclosure with something like construction paper to provide additional security and privacy.

21. For live links to the products Tony uses go to post #26. Post #36 is a setup checklist.

22. For the whole story click: Leopard Gecko Caresheet (Eublepharis macularius)...demo video & 4 Jan 2013 update
 

Shijadi

New member
So really i need a bigger tank, a UTH, some vitamins, and better temp guages....

I know I can get a UTH very soon, but if I can fix the heating and focus on making the current tank I have feel more secure, and since Nyx is a pretty healthy gecko already, will she survive for a fair amount of time? I'm just thinking I will need to save up some funds, especially for the tank.

I know she's not going to instantly die on me, but sometimes I feel like she will. I've become a fretful mother!
 

Completeleopard

New member
Yes, since she's a juvenile she will be OK in that tank until she's fully grown, but you need a twenty gallon for her when she's fully grown so she has space and its easier to get a temp gradient.

Leopard Gecko's are very hardy reptiles.
 

JIMI

New member
Hello Shijadi!

Just wanted to suggest something. Why don't you check Craig's List or thrift store (any place cheap) for a gently used enclosure? Or, if you're up to it, you can convert a cheap rectangular piece of wooden furniture, say a dresser, bookshelf, or a tv stand, with some nice sized dimensions? Maybe you can find something with potential in the free section. If you look hard enough for the right materials, you'd spend relatively little money. If you find the right piece of furniture, you can even fit 2 great sized enclosures for both of your leopard geckos. You can make your money work for you, you just have to be creative. :)

I am actually going to be doing the same thing! My leo has recently become bored in his enclosure. He's a Super Giant so it's gotten too small for him. So I'm going to build him a nice 60"x24"x24" enclosure built out of a rectangular tv stand, hopefully for little money. I'm just going to be recycling as many things as I can with things I find in my garage and on Craig's List. I'm planning on spending way less than $50 on the enclosure itself. A lot better than buying a 20 gallon for almost $100 at a pet store! It's a project that I'm very excited for! I want him to be happy so I'm willing to do it! I've got a pretty good plan set up. If you decide to do it feel free to ask for help!

You don't have to though, just thought I'd make the suggestion.:)
 

Shijadi

New member
Hehe it sounds like a fun project! Unfortunately I do not have such resources available as being a college student, I don't have any spare furniture of my own laying around. I will probably make a run to home depot for stuff to make hides, perhaps there are material there you can suggest where I could potentially make my own tank?

I already checked craigslist within the two states I switch between living, and people were actually selling tank for even more than the pet store. There's a 20 gal long at petsmart for 70$ I have my eyes set on if nothing else.
 

JIMI

New member
Haha I'm a poor college student too! The cheapest option would be to just convert an old piece of furniture. You could check for cheap furniture on craigslist too. Sometimes people throw out some really good pieces of furniture just because of a broken drawer. Maybe you'll get lucky and find one on the curb while driving around;-). I think that if you choose to make one from scratch it might end up being just as expensive or maybe even more. It'd also be time consuming.

Yeah people go crazy with prices on their aquariums it's ridiculous. Petco has a dollar per gallon sale a few times a year. Maybe one is coming up?
 

Shijadi

New member
I have no idea, I would have to time it while I'm home, since there's one a few minutes away. My college is out of state, and there is absolutely no pecto in the area around my campus, only petsmart.

I am planning to go to repticon in july when I'm home, and then it'll be near campus in october. I heard you can get cheap stuff there, but I have no idea what kind of savings i'm looking at and I kinda feel like I need to do something about this now even if it costs more.
 

JIMI

New member
Yes, that would be best. Maybe you'll get lucky and something cheaper will pop up soon.
Good luck!
 

Shijadi

New member
Holy crap, I made such a steal today. Went and checked tanks again on craigslist and a miracle happened. Unfortunately I will have to wait until I go back to my home state to pick it up, but someone is holding a 20 gal long for me for 20$!!!!!!! All I need to do is get a screen top for it, but that shouldn't be a problem.

Feeling so much better about this, and I rearranged Nyx's current tank with some new hides and seems to have settled down. Put it this way, she's back to sleeping instead of trying to desperately escape.
 

Completeleopard

New member
Well done for finding a tank!

However, you need to clean the tank thoroughly, there could have been any reptile in that tank with parasites or even worst, crypto.

From Elizabeth's care sheet.


Use ammonia to sterilize a glass tank. Bleach does not kill crypto. Toss the cage furniture.

"I want to explain the reason why I think it be best to just throw everything out. I have read several of these and the results varied.

Click: Inactivation of Cryptosporidium parvum Oocysts by Ammonia
At the highest concentration of ammonia, a small fraction of viable oocysts still remained."

---Thanks, cricket4u

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

"If you want to be absolutely sure when disinfecting, use ammonia. Ammonia is the only thing effective at killing crypto, giardia, and coccidia oocyst. (Ammonia and bleach should never be mixed as they will emit toxic gas bad for both you and the animals.)"

---Thanks, Mardy (10 July 2013)



More information is on Elizabeth's care sheet post number 35


After cleaning remember to 'air' the cage (leave it in a open space) for about two days so that there are no toxic fumes left for your Leo .


Cleaning the tank is important and must be thorough. Do not just think 'it will be OK' and put your Leo in there.
 
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