My Leo is not eating and has sunken eyes

[samdavies]

Hi,

I am looking for help and advice on my Leopard Gecko Tiger who has stopped eating now for 2.5-3 weeks.
His eyes are near enough closed and he won’t keep them open. He is not eating and i think this may be the cause also.

Any advice or help would be grateful and if you need any more information do email me back.
If this is something you cannot help or advice on then I do apologise for sending this email.
I have been to the vets where he was checked out. I was told he was ok and that as he has not been eating, the fat from the back of the eye has been used and therefore eyes have been sunk in. I am not too sure and therefore took him again to a different vet for a second opinion last week.
The vet saw skin in his eyes which he has taken out, flushed his eyes and gave me antibiotics drops to use twice a day. It has been a week now and he still won’t open his eyes completely. I will be taking him to the vets again however need some advice.
His tail is still fat, however I am concerned it will start getting thinner the longer he does not eat.

Attached is a picture of his eyes

Thanking you in advance

Regards
Sam

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

:yahoo: You did it! You have a beautiful leopard gecko.

Did either vet mention whether your leo can see?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

How are you doing for cage temperatures and hides? A moist hide 24/7 on the warm end is really vital. An environment that is too dry could have caused retained eye shed.

What about calcium with D3 and a wee bit of multivitamins? Some vitamin A acetate is necessary.

 

[samdavies]

Thanks. My Leo 'Tiger' is so cute. He still has his fat tail but i want it to stay that way.
He has a moist hide on the warm end which he likes to sit/sleep in 24/7. This is a hide with moss in it which i wet everyday.
None of the Vets mentioned whether he could see, but i do think he can see but very little. Sometimes i have seen him bumping onto things which made me think he cannot see, however he does not like to be held much by me so at times when he is walking, I will put my hand in front of him and he won't come to me and goes side ways which makes me think he can see my hand. I am thinking now if his vivarium is too dry as someone else mentioned this could be the cause of his eyelids sticking.

The humidity when he sheds is about 80-90%, however otherwise around 50%.. I also have a sponge in the vivarium which i wet so that it helps to keep the tank moist. I am not sure what else could be the case.
His warm side is 90F/30 degree C and cold side 70F/21 degrees C.

Calcium supplement. We use Calcium carbonate to dust his food and also a small dish is in his tank all the time. He has not eaten for a while so will not have had this also. i was getting worried about him not eating so have given him some Emeraid Carnivore. Only a little with a spoon and not using a syringe down his throat. I have just let him lick it of a little spoon we have for him.

I am taking him back to the vet tomorrow as the antibiotics drops don't seem to be helping much.
I have put some warm water on his head a few times to wet his eyes which i think helps a little as he has then opened them up for a bit and then closed them again. It must be that his eyes are dry and sore.

It is winter and we have the heating on in the house. Not sure if his vivarium is being affected by this?
Any help or advice would be helpful

 

[hmarie186]

What are you using as a multivitamin supplement? Are you just using plain calcium? Like Elizabeth said, vitamin A is essential for health, notably the eyes and skin. Is the vet sure all the skin is out of his eyes? Perhaps the corneas got scratched or are just irritated from having the stuck skin removed. You can get some regular saline solution for eyes NOT a contact lense cleaner to help re moisten his eyes. Elizabeth recommends Blink for Contacts (read ingredients though and make sure it is not a cleaner). I would keep using the antibiotics until the vet says not to or until he has finished the treatment, even if you don't think it's working it could be helping things not to get worse. I am concerned that sunken eyes is a telltale sign of dehydration. Perhaps you can get some subQ fluids while at the next appointment?

ETA: are you using overhead lighting?

 

[samdavies]

We are only using Calcium carbonate. I will speak to the vet about Vitamin A and get some if they have or ask for a suggestion on it. I should use it if it is needed. We don't have overhead light. Just the floor heat mat on the warm side. When i take him tomorrow, i will ask the vet to check his eyes again for anymore skin. Also if the eye has been damaged any soothing drops. I am using the antibiotics twice a day as recommended anyway. It will be 7 days tomorrow. What are subQ fluids? Yes I am worried about the sunken eyes and need to get him back to his normal happy self

 

[hmarie186]

I would recommend getting Zoo med Reptivite with D3. Regular calcium doesn't absorb well without vitamin D so that is very important as is the vitamin A acetate in the supplement as well. Lightly dust prey once a week with the supplement and twice a week with the plain calcium. he doesn't need a prescription dose of it or anything. You can find the supplement at any pet store or online. Just be sure you are buying it with D3.

SubQ, or subcutaneous, fluids are given under the first few layers of skin to dehydrate dehydrated/sick animals. I am not sure how they are given in geckos if there is a risk of dropping their tails so maybe just ask the vet if it's a good idea. I know others here have had it done but I have no personal experience with it. Keep us updated on how he's doing !

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

We are only using Calcium carbonate. I will speak to the vet about Vitamin A and get some if they have or ask for a suggestion on it. I should use it if it is needed. We don't have overhead light. Just the floor heat mat on the warm side. When i take him tomorrow, i will ask the vet to check his eyes again for anymore skin. Also if the eye has been damaged any soothing drops. I am using the antibiotics twice a day as recommended anyway. It will be 7 days tomorrow. What are subQ fluids? Yes I am worried about the sunken eyes and need to get him back to his normal happy self

Tiger is nicely proportioned. He has a good weight for his length. Hydration is even more important than food under these circumstances.

• Please ask the vet how well he/she thinks your leo can see and what the prognosis is. Did the 2nd vet say his eyes were infected at all?
• Gentle flushes with a normal saline solution are soothing. In the USA we can buy Blink for Contacts. That's a lubricating solution for people who wear contact lenses.
• Calcium should always be taken with food for proper absorption. No need to keep any in the enclosure.
• How large is your heat mat in relation to the size of the floor?
• Subcutaneous fluids are fluids a vet injects into the leo....a shot.
• Leopard geckos need calcium with vitamin D3 as well. I use and recommend:
  Zoo Med's plain (no D3) Reptivite multivitamin (just a pinch 1x week)
  + Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3
  The actual amount of supplements depends upon how many nutrients a leo is getting naturally through diet.
• ~32*C (90*F)
• Your humidity sounds good. If it's tough to maintain, you could try 2 large water dishes.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Here's why I like separate calcium with D3 and plain Reptivite.

#103---Balancing Zoo Med's no D3 Reptivite multivitamin & ZM's Repti Calcium with D3
Reasons to ONLY use a wee pinch of no D3 Reptivite multivitamins 1x per week + very light dustings of Repti Calcium with D3 about 2x per week

• My vet recommends only a wee pinch of Reptivite multivitamins 1x per week.
• In my experience, geckos seem to require ONLY a small amount of vitamin A acetate + other vitamins as long as their insects and worms are well fed.
• Both Reptivite multivitamins (with and without vitamin D3) contain enough phosphorus to make the dusting levels roughly 2 parts calcium : 1 part phosphorus before you even consider the high phosphorus naturally contained in bugs.
• Phosphorus impairs calcium absorption.
• Both Zoo Med Repti Calciums are phosphorus-free, so you can lightly dust for D3 without adding phosphorus at all.
• Both Reptivite multivitamins also contain calcium carbonate.
• I focus more on a good dry diet for the bugs and the worms. Consider light dustings of no D3 Reptivite multivitamins and Repti Calcium with D3 as secondary.
• Calcium needs to be taken with food for proper absorption.
• Some geckos do not much like the taste of Reptivite on their bugs.

 

[the funky gecko]

He has a fat tail which means that the food thing is ok for now but keep a eye on it. The eye part is for sure something you to look in to. Hope he does better.

 

[samdavies]

Hi all.. been to the vet today. Tiger is currently shedding so looks very pale.
The vet was happy with the progress Tiger's eyes were making. He looked at them closely and could see that they are getting much better now and less sore. There is no more skin in his eyes. He told me to continue using the antibiotics drops as they are doing good. I asked about an eye lubricant for him and he gave me some to use which should keep his eyes moist. When mentioned about Vitamin A and other nutrients as i only use CaCo3, he gave me the food supplement Carnivore to feed him. He said that has all he would need. He did not suggest anything else. At the moment as Tiger is not eating I will feed him this. His weight is 70g, same as what it was a week ago. Tiger had his eyes wide open at the vets for a change so got some antibiotics drops in them there also. The Vet did also mentioned he had seen a few reptiles in recently with similar problems of dry eyes.

Anyway any suggestions are always welcome. I am just hoping Tiger's shed goes well. I need to keep an eye on this.

Regards
Sam

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi Sam ~

:yahoo: for Tiger and for you in providing vet care! Excellent to hear that Tiger's eyes are healing.

In winter in many locations we need to be more vigilant of housing conditions that are too dry. Inside heat dries out the air.

Oxbow's Carnivore Care? That will be good for right now. After Tiger begins to eat by himself, Nutrobal supplement would be good in addition to CaCO3. Click: http://www.vetark.co.uk/pages/Nutrobal-for-reptiles.aspx

What were you feeding Tiger's bug/worms in the past? The better the diet is for them, the less one needs to add powdered supplements.

How is Tiger getting vitamin D3? D3 is necessary for the metabolism of calcium.

 

[samdavies]

Yes Oxbow one
Tiger normally eats meal worms and on occasions wax worms as a treat.
There is not Vitamin D3 or A as you stated is needed for eyes.

I need to look into this and buy these.
will have a look at the link you have provided. I will be buying some of these so need to know what makes are good.

I am so grateful for all the help and advice i am getting from you

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Yes Oxbow one
Tiger normally eats meal worms and on occasions wax worms as a treat.
There is not Vitamin D3 or A as you stated is needed for eyes.

I need to look into this and buy these.
will have a look at the link you have provided. I will be buying some of these so need to know what makes are good.

I am so grateful for all the help and advice i am getting from you

Thank you. I love helping people get on the right track with their leos. That leads to positive experiences with often a first reptile. Maybe other geckos are in your future? :biggrin:

What have you fed the mealworms? Mealworms can be fed exactly the same as crickets. Hornworms are a good treat. I'd skip any waxworms.

Click: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...ckets-blaptica-dubia-hornworms-silkworms.html

PS: Are Zoo Med's supplements plain (no D3) Reptivite multivitamins and ZM Repti Calcium with D3 available in the UK as well?

 

[samdavies]

Just had a quick search and yes i can see those products being sold online here in the uk.

Thanks

 

[samdavies]

We only dust the mealworms with CaCO3
Crickets is what we used to feed him, however they used to get lost in his house and then die so stopped with them and just started using mealworms

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

We only dust the mealworms with CaCO3
Crickets is what we used to feed him, however they used to get lost in his house and then die so stopped with them and just started using mealworms

That's what I understand.

Somehow, somewhere, some D3 is necessary in order for a gecko to metabolize CaCO3. Otherwise a gecko is a candidate for MBD (metabolic bone disease).

Humans get D3 from the sun and sometimes additionally from vitamin D3 gel pills. In northern zones it is more difficult to get D3 from the sun.

 

[samdavies]

Yes I totally understand. I went very low on Vitamin D end of last year and needed to take pills for that. I was then very low in Calcium after this which i am still suffering from. Vit D is needed to absorb the calcium in the blood stream. This is the same with concept with leos as well.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Yes I totally understand. I went very low on Vitamin D end of last year and needed to take pills for that. I was then very low in Calcium after this which i am still suffering from. Vit D is needed to absorb the calcium in the blood stream. This is the same with concept with leos as well.

For humans, calcium is absorbed while we are young till 30ish (?). After that not so much.

Don't know whether there is a similar window for calcium absorption in leos or lizards in general.

 

[samdavies]

My Leo Tiger's update today

Hi all,

I have attached pictures of Tiger today.
He has just had a nice shed and looks fresh and vibrant.

He is now opening his eyes a bit more. I think they are still sore but it is a huge improvement.
Please have a look at the pictures and let me know what you think.

I cannot stop smiling .....:banana:


Regards
Sam :yahoo: