New crested gecko owner here! Got a few questions...

[RyoDai89]

So!
Within the past 5-6 months I've gotten myself 3 crested geckos.
All doing merrily!
(I actually find them easier to care for than other reptiles I/I've owned.)

The first one is female, and weighs about 27 grams now. (She was born I think, July 4th? I bought her from Pangea.)
Got her un-sexed, but I think it's safe to say it's a girl now!

I'd gotten an 18x18x24 exo terra for her, that's planted, and within the past 2 months I've been able to now move her in. (She was a tiny thing when I bought her in October.)

As a gift, I was given 2 more, unexpectedly.
Not un-welcomed! Just wasn't planning to get another for some time.

These came from Petsmart.

Not sure on ages, but one's definitely male. (Seen pores around the beginning of Dec. before 'they' dropped around Jan.)
He's I think... 23 grams last I weighed him less than a week ago.
(He's in a plastic tub right now as, because he's male and for quarantine reasons, I'm not sure I want to put him with her. Atleast not yet if at all. I'd hoped honestly it'd been a girl.)

The third one, well... this little guy/gal is as tiny as can be. About 3 grams now. Waaay too small to sex, even with the jewelry loupe I have.
He's obviously in a separate container as well. I'm crossing my fingers for a girl.


Now, when I first got the three, they were all in tubs. Separate.
I'd hoped the one male would have been a girl, and that I could have housed the 2 in the exo terra at some point... obviously that's not happening now at this moment.

I wasn't sure if I'd house the tiny one too, when they all reached adulthood/same size... even though for this little one I know it'd be a VERY long time before/if I did... But 3 in an exo terra that size seems kinda pushing it...
But for now though, I'm not too concerned with that as, again, it's a tiny thing... it'll be a while before he gets an upgrade.


The thing is, because I know the one is a male, I can't house him with her now because if they breed... which they will, I'm aware it'll harm her.
(I believe they have to both be over 35 grams to breed?)


So!
I actually have a few questions I didn't originally think about...


The first one is!
I believe I read an 18x18x24 was okay to house 2 cresteds... would 3 be pushing it? IF the one turns out to be female?
Again, it's not a big concern now. I could always buy another tank I'm sure in the future. But it doesn't hurt to ask I suppose.
It'd be nice and would save me money if the little one turned out to be female and all three could be housed there.
But I just want to get other's opinions on it first.

My next question is about the male and female.
I've been doing alot of research, and had done alot long before getting the first one.
I'd always wanted to try my hand at breeding cresteds/gargoyles/leachies one day, as other breeding projects I've simply lost interest in... (I've bred mostly snakes.)
My question is, if both reach over 35 grams, is it okay to house the two then together?
Naturally if the two get along.
And I can always separate them if need be.
But I was wondering if it was 'okay' to house a pair permanently? And in an enclosure of that size...?
I hear mixed messages about such things, so I wanted to ask others on here first, again.


My last question is about the substrate... which I'd set up before moving the female in and before I even got the other two.
It's planted, with a huge colony of 'roly poly' pill bugs/woodlouse (no spring tails yet).
Because I was afraid she'd take out my colony (she loves insects of all sorts.) I put down some sphagnum moss. Covering the bottom.
Which seems to have worked well.
She might eat the stray ones that come up the limbs, but she won't 'hunt' for them or go digging around in it.
Thing is... see, I do want to start up a breeding project someday.
Having the two now, it got me to thinking...
Usually, you'd have a hide box in there with moss inside, and she'd lay eggs there. But now that the whole bottom is covered with it... it seems like a pointless idea now.
So, my question is, what am I to do?
She's no where near breeding size yet, so I'm not worried about it now... but when the time comes, should I take it all out?
It helps with the humidity, and it helps the 'roly pollies' as well and... well, it looks nice! I really don't want to take it up... would using a box still work?
I'm thinking not...
I suppose if I have to, I will. But I was wondering too that, if she laid eggs on the bottom, would they be harmed there?
Would the pill bugs harm the eggs at all or maybe the geckos themselves harm the eggs... this is all assuming they'll also be hard to find.
As, I believe they dig when they lay them...?



Yeah...


Sorry this is long!
I've been reading alot here lately and because I seem to be finding loads upon loads of mixed messages, I'd wanted to ask here finally. As so far, I've gotten alot of great advice from this site!
So I'm hoping someone with experience could throw in their two cents!

 

[JessJohnson87]

As for the breeding questions, I'll let Kelly and others who breed crestie's answer those.

For housing them together all the time, male crested geckos are horn dogs so I would be worried that he would harass her too much and I know the females need a cool down period to restore their calcium reserves from laying eggs. When you do house 2 geckos together, they need to be around the same weight and size or else the smaller one will get eaten, bullied and what not. I would check Craigslist for the exo-terra/zoo med aquariums. I found my 18x18x24 on there for $55 with a bunch of other stuff I won't use. Do you have a picture of your 18x18x24? Have you gone full bio with it? The only downside to letting her lay in the substrate is that you can't find the eggs and adults can be cannibalistic of the young ones.

Welcome to the world of owning a crested gecko, I love my leo but I find these guys to be more enjoyable.

 

[RyoDai89]

Yeah, I knew I had to wait for the one to get bigger before they could ever be in the same tank. And this is assuming it's female.
I'll probably eventually just put the male in another tank. I do have an un-used 20 so, I can always use that too until I save up for another exo-terra.
(Or a bin as I do find them pretty good homes for cresteds too.)

Was just curious because, I know with some reptiles, you can have a male with multiple females and they'll be little to no problem (I had this set up with a 55 gal and anoles) so I was curious if it could be done on a smaller scale with cresteds. Wasn't aware they were huge horndogs, so I'll definitely stray from keeping the two together.

I can probably get a picture tonight after work but yeah, it's full on bio.
With organic potting soil, limbs, a bromeliad (sp?), 2 small snake plants and a pothos that vines around some limbs.
And a hide near the bottom (though I'm trying to make a magnetic coconut hide for the side a little bit higher).
And then I put down all the moss to keep the 'clean up crew' from getting eaten.

I set up the tanks months before I got her... So it'd all be ready. I set it up in July? Bought her in October. And was eventually gonna get another once I found out her sex. But that wasn't gonna be for some time (I'd wanted a specific color) but then I was gifted with these two. So I'm trying to get everything ready for when I have to upgrade them.

But yeah, figured it'd be a bad idea to put the stuff in at the bottom. After I'd already done so. Especially since I knew they'd probably eat the young. (She definitely would! I couldn't even house millipedes in there with her because she tried to snack on them.)
But again, I didn't plan on breeding her anytime soon when I put her in. So I guess I'll just have to take it out when the time comes.

By the way! Because this was also bothering me... I'm aware that when you want to house multiple reptiles, it's best to move stuff around so no one has any claimed territory... I can move the limbs, but not the plants ofcourse. Would that still be an issue if I moved only what I could around? (It probably would be as she seems to really like the one plant.) I've done planted tanks before, like for a chameleon. But I kept them in pots and covered them up 'to look nice'. So I could move them if need be. I've also never had a huge colony of pill bugs like I do now, so I don't want to disrupt them as they're my go to when I put some in other tanks...)

 

[JessJohnson87]

You could keep them in the bio enclosure, I think someone on here keeps theirs in bio and they just lay the eggs in there. I think they only dig a couple of inches deep to lay them so you can probably scan the soil for disrupted spots and then poke a finger in there to see if there is an egg.

My male crested will lick his junk constantly and get more into it if I'm watching....

 

[RyoDai89]

I just hope I'd be able to find them all.
I set it up where, there are lots of hiding spaces... It's easy for them to crawl and jump around, but not for me to stick my hand around in there, y'know?
...
I might have to consider re-doing the tank...


That is funny XD! Gross! But hilarious!

 

[JessJohnson87]

Here is mine. I'm constantly making changes to it and I hope I can leave it alone for the next 2 weeks to move my guy in, that's wishful thinking because I'm always thinking of new things to add to it. I don't plan on breeding mine at all, he's a Petco guy, so that's going to be his permanent home. I'm addicted to bio-active now so I want another crestie and I want to make my leopard gecko tank bio-active now....

 

[Yoshi'smom]

I'm here!

I don't recommend breeding crested geckos until they are at least 35 grams but ideally should be 40 grams. Breeding is hard on a female so the more weight she has on her the less difficult it is on her body to produce/lay eggs.
I only put the male in with the female for a week or two tops until I'm sure she's gravid. Then the female goes back to her own enclosure. I've heard of breeders leaving them together permanently, but again, I'd recommend against it. Males will pester females for sex non-stop and your female won't get the time she needs to recover her calcium reserves after laying constantly and could calcium crash.
I wouldn't house more than two in an 18x18x24. And as far as housing together, I always recommend housing separately. I'd just rather not risk the lives of my animals. Even females can spontaneously start to fight even after years of being together. I'd just rather not risk it.
Substrate is not my forte as I use paper towels. I have too many to worry about a ton of substrate and I'm not known to have the greenest of thumbs. the only other reason I don't use a particulate substrate is because I always worry about impaction. I know the risk is actually minimal in an adult gecko, but again, I've spend $200-$300 on a single gecko so I'd rather not risk impaction.
I don't think you'll have a problem with the rollie pollies. They often ignore prey items that are too small. If they grab them, it's not a problem. I'd just watch with the particulate substrate.
From what I've heard, since I don't use a substrate and only use layboxes, is that females will dig anywhere. I don't think you'd need a laybox with your substrate. You'd just have to get used to digging through the whole tank to find the eggs. If you don't want to do that, then just switch to a lay box and paper towel substrate.
I also just want to chime in about breeding unknown quality crested geckos. I really wouldn't recommend that you breed a gecko that you're not sure what it's lineage is. Those of us that breed, tend to only do so with animals with great lineage, health and color. We only have so many in captivity and when we breed high quality animals, it adds to the health of the breeding population.
Your pangea male has fantastic lineage and I'd recommend finding him a higher end female so that you can get great looking kids.
I breed and could sell you some great kids from great lines.
If you have any other questions, just ask!
Also, you should post photos of your crestie kiddos.

 

[RyoDai89]

Aww... that looks awesome.
Mine looks like a jumbled mess... And I was too afraid of doing the back end part of mine because I'd never done it before... So I left the foam thing in instead.
I might have to try it out now though! That loos awesome!
(I'd planned it ORIGINALLY for gargoyles... so it had alot less stuff. Since I hear they go on the ground sometimes and what not... Fell in love with the crested. Added more stuff because I read they liked to hide more... Thiiiink I went over board...)


And I've ALWAYS wanted to do bio-active set-up for a leo! Thing is though, it's kinda hard because they can get impacted easily... The cresteds, I feed them their insects in a tub. The leos I just dump in. I'm sure it can be done, I just personally don't know how...

 

[JessJohnson87]

Bio for leopards is easy, you don't use sand but a mixture of excavator clay and sand.
Creating a Bioactive Leopard Gecko Setup - Gecko Time - Gecko Time <--article on that.

I made my background out of great stuff foam and pressed peat moss onto the silicone that I smeared all over the foam once it was cured. I made my own soil mix, added the plants, leaf litter, sticks and I just put the moss on the background yesterday. I forked the moss up from the back yard with a bit of dirt still attached to make it adhere better.

I would add some more plants on the sides of the tank towards the top, crestie's prefer to hide out higher up but sometimes they will burrow in the substrate.

 

[RyoDai89]

Wow... yeah, maaaaybe I'll reconsider housing more than one for right now.
Atleast until I get more experienced with this particular kind. I've done so with others, but again, it was a huge tank... and with reptiles that are usually kiiiiinda in groups (atleast as far as I've seen others keep them.)

And hell, I might end up just re-doing the tank too. I posted pictures up now on another post... Yeah. It's really crowded in there. And I don't know if I want to go digging around in there as- I'd probably end up having to take stuff out just to find them. And then I'd be worried about harming the eggs...


And it's actually the female that I got from Pangea. The male and 'unknown' little guy they got me from Petsmart.
And is the reason for not breeding pet store cresteds due to health concerns..?
I didn't intend to breed them to sell, I'd intended to keep the babies. So I was wondering if it's because of colors, I personally wouldn't mind what pops out. But if it's for health concerns... I might reconsider and just keep him as my chill little guy.
(I SWEAR he's the most easy to handle reptile I've ever had. The other two are actually good too. Even the tiny one has gotten used to being held. But this one... despite pooping on me twice, he's such a nice little guy!)


Definitely will consider seeing what you have available though!

Mind if I ask though...
When it comes to breeding... the reptiles I've bred, there really wasn't anything specific when it came down to it. There was never any breeding for a specific size or color or what have you...
I hear though, that people breed for specific 'morphs/colors'?
How does one do that? I mean... putting one with another, do you know or have an idea of what'll pop out?

(Because she was bought from Pangea as a 'Halloween' Harlequin... cost me a pretty penny. The other two, well... the male looks like a 'tiger brindle' kinda thing... The unknown, not too sure.)


I'll post some pictures though, too!
I wished they would have been fired up because the girl looks GORGEOUS when she is! And even the male has a bright orange to him.
The tiny one, he was actually starting to shed when I took the picture... Probably should have left him alone... as he was eating when I found him too... But yeah, his color gets pretty bright too when he's full on fired up. Not as bright as the others, but maybe because he's so tiny?


Female first, then male, then the little guy...

 

[RyoDai89]

I have seen that!
In tanks set up... but my thing is, I haven't the foggiest idea of where to get it.
I hear some people go out to lakes and what not and get it there. But I don't think I'm 'advanced' enough to attempt that...


I 'tried' to help a friend do that once... We gave up because we couldn't keep the plants in. Is there a special way you do it? Do you have them in a cup or...?
Also, the concern for watering came up. Because it looked like it would leak out in the back when we tried it...


Yeah, I thought about doing a hanging plant. I'm currently trying out this coconut hide thing. You cut holes in it and either hang or or stick it on the side... Haven't finished it yet because I'm not sure how I want it to go. But I seen someone use a coconut as a 'pot' for a plant and had it hanging... with a hanging vine like plant coming down... I wanna try that too.
I'm trying to stay away from using fake plants because it doesn't 'mesh' well with the way it looks. But I might end up just sticking them in there anyways as... I can't stand the bare looking corners in it.

 

[JessJohnson87]

Morphs & Projects
Its All In The Build | The Gecko Geek <--those should help with the breeding stuff.

From what I have gathered, most want geckos with great structure(body, head and crests) and patterns. If you get a gecko without seeing what the parents look like (ie from Petsmart/Petco) it's hard to tell what the outcome of the babies could be. When you get a gecko from a breeder who has the parents, you can pretty much tell what the different variations of pattern, color and structure will be. Most want high end geckos for breeding projects and have good genetics. With pet store geckos, you have no clue if the breeder they get them from is inbreeding which will cause health issues in the offspring.

I put 3 inch plastic pots on the great stuff after I sprayed the back layer down and then filled in around the pots. If you go out in the woods away from a busy highway, then that stuff would be less polluted with chemicals and such. How I did my coconut is I drilled 2 holes in the "eyes" on the top to drain the milk out, then I used a 2 inch hole saw to cut the entrance hole.
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...80151-bio-active-crested-gecko-enclosure.html Check out my bio thread, I try to keep it up to date with changes I make, need to do that with the moss.


The coconut.

 

[RyoDai89]

Ahhh.... I gotcha.
Might need to do some more reading myself then.


That's the EXACT thing I had in mind! Atleast for the hide.
I wanted one that would hand, and the other I cut and put back together in a way to magnet it to the side...
And the plants, I believe they just cut one in half and drilled holes.
But yeah, that's what I've been meaning to make. Seen a video of it on youtube.

Definitely gonna check out the thread though! Thanks!!

 

[JessJohnson87]

I knocked a hole in mine while I was trying to clean the meat out so I had to glue the pieces back on, it did help with getting the rest of the meat out though. Was only $2 for the coconut and the rest of the stuff was in the garage, having a mechanic husband has it's perks

 

[Yoshi'smom]

Jess got to it before me.
I don't recommend breeding from animals that you're unsure of lineage of. The parent's could have had some deficiencies or other issues. These can be passed onto the babies.
Also as Jess said, Crested gecko genetics are basically a crapshoot. If you pair two completely different patterned animals together you can pretty much get anything from them (which can be fun). But if you pair two similar animals together you get kids that look basically like the parents mostly, but they can still throw a random pattern out. I tend to only pair similarly patterned animals together. I'd rather know what my kiddos are gonna look like (mostly).

 

[JessJohnson87]

If I ever breed, I'll do the opposite and put 2 different patterns together just to guess and see what I get. I like the mystery, I hate surprises but those would be nice ones