Issues with my substrate temps

[Britt005]

Hello! I need some help with a substrate for my natural viv.

So as you may or may not remember, I (semi) recently completed a natural viv for my leo using Zoo meds excavator clay as a substrate. I was warned about it not conducting heat well, so on the warm side I broke apart some slate stones, placed them on a thin layer of sand, and used the clay as a grout to hold the whole thing together. My logic in that the stones will warm and she can lay on them. It heat well at first, at least it seemed too. My probe thermometer and thermostat indicated it was getting to the proper temperatures, but she seemed to stop pooping after being in there a few days. I put my hand on the rocks and they didn't feel nearly as warm as they should, even though my instruments were telling me they were. The absolute last thing I want are more health issues so I ended up getting paranoid and putting her back in her old tank.

I now want to go ahead and get her resettled. I've been doing renovations for the past week or so armed with a spoon and a spray bottle, making her cool caves look pretty cool and making them more easily accessible for her. But I got the same results when I plugged in the heating pad back in. I think the whole thing is just heating really inconsistently - it seems some stones themselves are getting warmer than others. I may be facing pulling the whole thing out with really sucks . But what to put in it's place? The substrate is working beautifully on the cool side so I definitely don't want to scrap the whole thing. I guess I could do straight tile? But I don't like the fact that the slate doesn't seem to be heating - there is no clay underneath it. Could it be the sand not conducting the heat? Am I just going crazy? Any guidance would be appreciate. Also, I'm pretty sure it's not the pad itself giving my problems. The whole thing seems to feel evenly heated when felt from the bottom.

- Side note -

To add a little more confusion, when I was scooping loose clay out of one of the caves I'm pretty sure I pulled out a spoonful of urates. It was wet from me spraying it and broken up so I couldn't tell 100%, but it was white and had that chalky consistency. I think she may have been pooping in her cave which is A. Weird, and B. Probably why I didn't find any poop for so long....she may never have been constipated at all.

 

[JessJohnson87]

I use a ceramic heat emitter now but I also moved mine up to a bigger tank. I never had issues with the clay and it not heating well when I was using a heat pad and he pooped just fine. But I honestly think he likes the overhead heat more than using a heat pad, hes way more active and it isolates one basking area. You can try that on the warm side and see how she does, if she was pooping and eating just fine on the clay, then there should not be any issues.

 

[Britt005]

Ugh, Jess I didn't even think of that. That's why I turn to you guys! I have a CHE just sitting on a shelf since I haven't had to use it as supplemental heat since the weather warmed up. I guess I've just been beat over the head with belly heat. But I guess if it works, it works?

I hope she doesn't make the cave her regular poop spot, as it'll be hard for me to monitor it!

 

[Zux]

Hello Britt (and Jess !!!),

I have seen similar reactions in some of the Geckos I keep when first moved to Bio-Active, some if not all chose new 'poop spots', so you might be stuck with the new decision I'm afraid, though thats undoubtedly much better than her being unable to digest prey or similar I suppose !

Regarding 'types' of heat, its a very common misconception that the Geckos must only have a UTH providing heat from below, dont get me wrong, they are ideal for some setups and for new keepers in particular but the notion that they require heat from below to enable digestion is inaccurate, what they need, like all animals, be they warm or cold blooded, is a suitable core body temperature to enable this bodily function.

Heat from below, is however, a very natural thing to them, being as the suns rays heat the ground of their natural environment and that heat would likely remain hours after they become active. Your CHE may very well achieve a similar effect, which would be the best of both worlds as it will also raise ambient air temperatures to a more natural level. I would recommend a Pulse Proportional Thermostat to control the CHE and having it switch off shortly after your lighting turns off.

As for reading those temps, my advice would be to get an infra-red temp gun from Amazon or similar, they are like 10 Dollars or so and are the only way to obtain true surface temps of a solid surface in my experience. Probes, no matter the quality, are simply not designed to do that job and while they may be able to tell you a 'ballpark' figure or confirm a thermostats operation, to know the true temperature it has to be via gun.


Hope that helped.

 

[Britt005]

Thank you Shane, that helps a lot. I will rehome her early next week using the CHE and hopefully all will be well! So do I need a separate thermostat for the CHE? I currently have one for the pad - can I hook them both up or is that a fire hazard? haha I'm running critically short on outlets!

Well I scooped out a good amount of clay as well as the urates from the cave, so hopefully she'll 'forget' she pooped there and pick a new spot. The cave is for sleeping, not pooping silly gecko!

 

[Zux]

You will need a separate thermostat for any heating element in use, so one for the stat and one for the mat if you use that also. The Pulse Proportional recommendation was just that however, and your mat stat will operate the CHE perfectly well if not used for the mat.

Here's hoping she takes your hint !

 

[JessJohnson87]

Pupate some superworms to beetles and put those in there. They will eat the poop if she does decide to make that cave her bathroom and less of a hassle for you to clean, they will not eat urate.

My beetles cleaning up spewed guts from a hornworm after last nights dinner.

 

[Zux]

Jess, I think saw this picture on one of the private Facebook Groups, I forgot which though and didn't realize it was you posting.

 

[Britt005]

Hi Jess! Yeah, I have beetles from mealworms in there and they did eat the poo which is why I only found the urates. I guess I'll still have to spoon clean it so often!

 

[JessJohnson87]

Jess, I think saw this picture on one of the private Facebook Groups, I forgot which though and didn't realize it was you posting.

If it was Reptiles and Amphibians Bioactive Setups, it was me lol.

Hi Jess! Yeah, I have beetles from mealworms in there and they did eat the poo which is why I only found the urates. I guess I'll still have to spoon clean it so often!

HAHA my mealworm beetles are not good poop cleaners so that's why I went with superworm beetles, plus he likes to eat superworms. I only pick up urate when they start to build up, which is usually twice a month. Sometimes I'll throw them in my plant area and bury them in the soil to let them breakdown naturally and give the plants extra nutrients.