Possible crypto or MBD in African Fat Tail?

J

Jessbles

New member
Will be receiving an African Fat Tail soon from a friend who is aware she hasn't taken good care of him and wants him to have a better life.
He's small, very thin, and between 10-15 years old.
When they got him from a pet store many years ago, he had no tail and was already very thin. He never gained a lot of weight despite eating often.
They have always fed Calcium without D3 as far as I'm aware. He does not receive much natural light.
We'll be getting him within a few days, and since I'm unsure on what his condition is he'll be going straight to my boyfriends house, as I have many reptiles and he has none.

- Is crypto always a death sentence? I have read they do not always die and may remain carriers of the disease.
- I know geckos can not process calcium without D3, could this lead to being malnourished, or even MBD?

When we get him, we'll be letting him settle in for a few weeks, and then take him to the vet for a crypto test and a general appointment on his overall health.

Thanks.
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Active member
Welcome to Geckos Unlimited!

Without some vitamin D3 source a gecko will surely get MBD. MBD is reversable, but needs to be remedied early on.

  • What powdered supplements do you have for this AFT?
  • Please share a video of this guy walking around or at least a photo of his whole body. MBD is easy to detect. That will help us immensely. :)
 
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J

Jessbles

New member

Was just able to upload this. I have calcium with and without D3. I was going to keep a dish of Calcium with D3 in his tank at all times, his tank will also be near a window so he will be getting some good ol' natural sunshine.

For the Calcium without D3 I currently have Zoo Meds Reptivite without D3.
For the Calcium WITH D3 I have ZooMeds Repi Calcium with D3.

I'm wondering as well if it would be okay to keep a dish of mealworms (that they can't escape from) in his tank at all times?

He's also missing a foot due to shedding issues. I don't believe they have adequate humidity levels.
 
J

Jessbles

New member
Just want to make sure it's clear, he's not currently in my care. I'll be getting him hopefully Friday. We'll be switching him onto paper towel, with a hot hide, humid hide, and a cooler side hide.

Was going to keep the D3 dish until he gains a few pounds. We'll be weighing him so we know how he's progressing.
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Active member
Jessbles said:

Was just able to upload this. I have calcium with and without D3. I was going to keep a dish of Calcium with D3 in his tank at all times, his tank will also be near a window so he will be getting some good ol' natural sunshine.

For the Calcium without D3 I currently have Zoo Meds Reptivite without D3.
For the Calcium WITH D3 I have ZooMeds Repi Calcium with D3.

I'm wondering as well if it would be okay to keep a dish of mealworms (that they can't escape from) in his tank at all times?

He's also missing a foot due to shedding issues. I don't believe they have adequate humidity levels.
Click to expand...
Don't keep D3 calcium in his enclosure 24/7. :( Window glass blocks any beneficial UVB. An enclosure could overheat, if it sits near a window.

Is this AFT the AFT you'll be receiving?

Those Zoo Med supplements are excellent! Vitamin D3 is fat soluble. That means one dose sticks around in a gecko's body for about 1 week. D3 is NOT flushed out when a gecko pees. So, if your AFT is eating lightly dusted prey, that should be enough D3 per week. That powder sticks better to crickets than to mealworms. Then I recommend:
  • Lightly dusted prey with D3 at 1 feeding per week.
  • Lightly dusted prey with plain calcium @ 1 feeding per week.
  • Lightly dusted prey with Zoo Med's Reptivite multivitamins withOUT D3 @ 1 feeding per week.
Is your AFT eating? When you receive him, make a paste of your D3 calcium + water. Place a little on his snout. See whether he'll lick it off.
 
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J

Jessbles

New member
That's a really easy schedule to remember, I'll ensure we do the dustings for those, we'll assign a day for each. :)

He does eat apparently, and she (my friend) dusts them without D3 every time she feeds as far as I know. Supposedly the other day he ate 10 crickets, she just has to assist by holding the cricket for him to eat. Now only recently has she been putting in the effort to feed him often, so I'm unsure if he's able to gain weight or not.

I've also decided to name him Oscar!
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Active member
Jessbles said:
That's a really easy schedule to remember, I'll ensure we do the dustings for those, we'll assign a day for each. :)

He does eat apparently, and she (my friend) dusts them without D3 every time she feeds as far as I know. Supposedly the other day he ate 10 crickets, she just has to assist by holding the cricket for him to eat. Now only recently has she been putting in the effort to feed him often, so I'm unsure if he's able to gain weight or not.

I've also decided to name him Oscar!
Click to expand...

Make sure you saw my last edits to post 5. Oscar's MBD may not be all that advanced.

Which brand supplement does your friend use for Oscar's prey?
 
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A

acpart

Active member
What's done has been done. When you get the AFT:
start dusting his food with calcium with D3 weekly
as soon as you feel you can, take him to the vet for a crypto test (see below)
keep him quarantined from your reptiles. If it's possible to have him at your boyfriend's until the results of the crypto test come in, do that. If not, keep him as far from the other reptiles as possible and handle/feed him last. Wash hands well after handling.

I, unfortunately, now have a crypto positive population. Most of my geckos look fat and healthy. Every now and then, one starts to lose weight and passes away. I didn't lose any for over a year (they were diagnosed about 2 1/2 years ago) and then lost 2 a few months ago. Even the fat and healthy looking ones are crypto positive. They may live for years, but things may also change.

Aliza
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Active member
Jessbles said:
Just want to make sure it's clear, he's not currently in my care. I'll be getting him hopefully Friday. We'll be switching him onto paper towel, with a hot hide, humid hide, and a cooler side hide.

Was going to keep the D3 dish until he gains a few pounds. We'll be weighing him so we know how he's progressing.
Click to expand...
I've understood all along that you've not received Oscar.

Like Aliza and I recommend, lightly dust with Repti Calcium with D3 @ 1 feeding per week along with the above schedule.

Is she sending Zoo Med's Repti Calcium withOUT D3 to you along with Oscar? Plain calcium lasts forever. It has no expiration.

Here are some quarantine recs:
 
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J

Jessbles

New member
acpart said:
What's done has been done. When you get the AFT:
start dusting his food with calcium with D3 weekly
as soon as you feel you can, take him to the vet for a crypto test (see below)
keep him quarantined from your reptiles. If it's possible to have him at your boyfriend's until the results of the crypto test come in, do that. If not, keep him as far from the other reptiles as possible and handle/feed him last. Wash hands well after handling.

I, unfortunately, now have a crypto positive population. Most of my geckos look fat and healthy. Every now and then, one starts to lose weight and passes away. I didn't lose any for over a year (they were diagnosed about 2 1/2 years ago) and then lost 2 a few months ago. Even the fat and healthy looking ones are crypto positive. They may live for years, but things may also change.

Aliza
Click to expand...

Ouch, that sounds rough. I debated keeping him for a day at my home before taking him to my boyfriends, but I decided the risks were too high. Once he's there and has settled in, after about 2 weeks we'll be taking him to the vet for an initial exam and a crypto test. He's already an old man, so I don't want to stress him too much.

We'll be getting him tomorrow night, will probably let him settle in overnight, then on Saturday, we'll fix up his tank to how it should be. I'll try to feed him on Saturday with D3 dusted crickets. I'll also take some photos of him and really see how his health is.
 
A

acpart

Active member
Jessbles said:
Ouch, that sounds rough. I debated keeping him for a day at my home before taking him to my boyfriends, but I decided the risks were too high. Once he's there and has settled in, after about 2 weeks we'll be taking him to the vet for an initial exam and a crypto test. He's already an old man, so I don't want to stress him too much.

We'll be getting him tomorrow night, will probably let him settle in overnight, then on Saturday, we'll fix up his tank to how it should be. I'll try to feed him on Saturday with D3 dusted crickets. I'll also take some photos of him and really see how his health is.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan.

Aliza
 
J

Jessbles

New member
We haven't yet cleaned his tank yet and put it on paper towel. He also does not seem to be interested in food so far. I believe he has a facial deformity, perhaps related to mbd? I also took photos of his foot.
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Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Active member
J

Jessbles

New member
Elizabeth Freer said:
Please share another video taken in the best lighting possible. The first video you shared was difficult to see.

When did your friend feed him last?
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Here's a video I took on Saturday.

He ate 3 crickets on Saturday night dusted with Calcium + D3. Sunday he ate 3 crickets, undusted. In the video I let the cricket loose without back legs, I wanted to see if he could hunt it. It appears he isn't able to actually tell where the cricket is infront of him? He "pounces" in the general direction but often misses. He also does not seem to want anything but crickets, probably because for 10 years he was never fed anything but crickets. My boyfriend will be continuing to feed him every night, Tuesday will be the Calcium without D3 day.

He hasn't yet pooped, when he does I told my boyfriend to take a photo and sent it to me.

So far he's doing great. He's mostly been hiding in his warm humid hide. He does seem to walk a whole lot better on paper towel, too. We made sure to clean and scrub everything, his water dish and cave had years of built up dirt and gunk on it. I'm waiting on the vet to call me back in terms of pricing.


(If my boyfriend takes any photos or videos I'll share them here, I live an hour away from him and only see him on weekends).
 
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GeckoLeen

GeckoLeen

New member
I wonder if he is having trouble seeing the white cricket on the white paper towel. Can you get some brown paper towel to try, so he might be able to see it better?
 
J

Jessbles

New member
So today he successfully was able to hunt down one cricket and eat it (dusted). He removed the hides to help him hunt. He also ate another that my boyfriend kind of pointed to with the tweezers. He also ate 2 from the tweezers themselves. So he might be able to see. We'll keep experimenting with it.

He still has not pooped since we got him on Friday night. No urates either. I'm hoping he's just not settled in...

So far he's eating every day about 3-4 crickets. He's also been drinking. He seems to be very happy despite no poop! I'm hoping we can see some weight gain soon. :)
 
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J

Jessbles

New member
I have papertowel and just a bit of sphagnum moss in his humid hide, it's what was recommended (besides eco earth which I do not want) on all of the care sheets I was reading. It also says nothing about moss in the care sheet on the pinned post in the AFT forum. However someone has told me (on Facebook) that this moss is really bad and can impact them. I've found no sources on this from google? He isn't hunting crickets, we tong feed him. His temperatures are also spot on. Should we remove the moss or is it okay?

He also pooped, but he pooped in his water dish. It was kind of grey, and wasn't fell formed at all. Apparently had some cricket parts (like a leg) in it. It's his first poop with us, so we will keep checking on his poop.

I'm trying to find a reptile vet.
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Active member
Jessbles said:
I have papertowel and just a bit of sphagnum moss in his humid hide, it's what was recommended (besides eco earth which I do not want) on all of the care sheets I was reading. It also says nothing about moss in the care sheet on the pinned post in the AFT forum. However someone has told me (on Facebook) that this moss is really bad and can impact them. I've found no sources on this from google? He isn't hunting crickets, we tong feed him. His temperatures are also spot on. Should we remove the moss or is it okay?

He also pooped, but he pooped in his water dish. It was kind of grey, and wasn't fell formed at all. Apparently had some cricket parts (like a leg) in it. It's his first poop with us, so we will keep checking on his poop.

I'm trying to find a reptile vet.
Click to expand...

Keep an eye on the sphagnum moss in his humid hide. He probably won't eat it.

Here's a vet link: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

Please keep us posted.
 
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