Stable market or would you rather keep the way it is?

[Bowfinger]

I feel the gecko market is not stable and has not set standards for pricing and creating a true value even if vague for some reference to go by. I have some ideas on correcting this used in other markets, but do we really want this? I know there are besides the chance of losses, there is also room for gain by getting an inside before the rest...some want to keep it that way. Let me know what you think.

 

[jof]

I say no and yes, but more to the yes

The problem is that new species are very expensive first, which is OK, because we don't want a newcommer to let important individuals to die just because he wanted it in a plastic tub! But over the years, when the species is becoming more and mores established in the hobby, it would become absurd to ask 1000$ or so for an animal that is breeding like rabbits and turns out to be an excelent beginner animal.

at the other hand, i don't like the idea to see for example cresteds or so go for 8$ or so, something what is already happening with normal type leo's these days.

 

[DDReptiles]

I say no and yes, but more to the yes

The problem is that new species are very expensive first, which is OK, because we don't want a newcommer to let important individuals to die just because he wanted it in a plastic tub! But over the years, when the species is becoming more and mores established in the hobby, it would become absurd to ask 1000$ or so for an animal that is breeding like rabbits and turns out to be an excelent beginner animal.

at the other hand, i don't like the idea to see for example cresteds or so go for 8$ or so, something what is already happening with normal type leo's these days.

I agree with you, I just get tired of spending a five hndred dollars on a pair of geckos just to see the very next year you can't sell a baby for $50

 

[Bowfinger]

The part where you are tired of $500 to $50 by next season is my big problem as well. Some who are smart enough to make that big profit initially or those who whole"sell" out I think do not realize the loss of consumers/clients by fear of investing...unless they knew it was really just a good deal, not the standard. I would never want to publish information to hurt fresh imports and standing markets, more so I would want to place a tag that maintains the initial prices from spiking. I would also add value by giving a grading system for quality of bloodlines along with a price grade, this price grade would be open to a zone based on the species variability. It basically would be a buyers guide and will help out importers, exporters, breeders and the buyers. New imports would be unrated, or factors already evident will be considered.

Thats my thinking on this, I would love to hear ideas from other prospectives...and you don't have to be nice, I do have a spine and a brain thats open for constructive critisizm(not enough time to go to spell check)
-Shane Reaume

 

[chadosborne]

As long as I work with the animals I like it all seems to come out in the wash. It seems alot like every thing that has been in vouge as of late are BROWN lizards and there in maybe the problem.
If any of you can't sell your underwoods LMK.

 

[dactylus]

In many respects I both agree and disagree with the idea.
On one hand it could be regarded as price fixing or running a cartel.
The market demand for a particular species sets the price you're asking, or willing to pay.

I do believe there is some justification for it, of benefit as much to the animal as to the potential owner. The potential for a species to be so undervaled due to ease of CB. Perhaps a species that requires experience to keep, breeding readily in such care. The market devalues because of numbers, and brings it within the price range of the inadequate newbie, proving fatal for the gecko.
I do believe that the time has come for some sort of arrangement, there should a value placed on the gecko other than the financial, and this reflected in the price.
Should a gecko be so cheap in the hobby when still regarded as endangered in the wild?

 

[Reptiluvr]

It is a shame that once a large group of one species comes in and people start breeding that the price drops dramatically. It's also a shame that such a simple species as R. ciliatus collects such high prices for animals that don't have proven genetic traits. I personally would like to see greater stability with species from areas of little or no collection such as Australian and South African geckos. This actually seems to be the case with most of the above mentioned genera. I agree with dactylus that species that are difficult to keep shouldn't have low prices for newbies. Why should so many Holodactylus africanus die every year to people who don't know how to keep them?

 

[BlakeDeffenbaugh]

I agree that there should be some sort of price rage set. Could be a varied price. I know we're talking about geckos but look at ball pythons. Every morph has a price range, some drop fast, some stay a constant price that hardly drops over time. It took the albino ball what. . . 10 years or so to drop under 1k? as where it took the mojave like 2 years to drop to 500 bucks. I know these are the same animals just different morphs but still the same concept. I think there should be some sort of constant price range for the animals. In one week I seen Phelsuma standingi from 200 down to 45 bucks. There should not be that much of a market fluctuation on that animal. I paid around 130 for 2 standingi after talking her down. I feel I got a good deal because they were worth it. But there should not be a 155 dollar difference between 2 different people. I've been seeing this alot and I agree 100% there should be some sort of set estimating range for the animals. Say your sellin standingi and want a gauge somewhere between 90-120 would be a great place to put them, not saying thats what it should be just using it as an example.

 

[chadosborne]

ten years ago I sold standingi for $45 babies/juvies. Today I sell them for $45 thats what the market will bear. Ten years ago I could wholesale every leopard gecko I produced for $18. Now I can buy adults for $7. Now on the filpside I can wholesale every grandis for more than I use to retail them for at shows. There are varibles that effect the geckos.

*How easy is the animal to reproduce.
*Is it and attractive/pleasing to the eye.
*Husbandry(must be easy and basic).
*A significant # must be produce to create a market for them.
*lots and lots of luck.

Its hard to compare geckos and ball pythons/boa morphs. Thats a whole market onto its self. They sell and trade among them selves. EVERYONE wants to be Mark Bell and/or Pete Khal(sp). Those guys produce so many wierd new snakes its hard for the mind to comprehend. That keeps the market buzzing.

 

[BlakeDeffenbaugh]

Right I was just using that as an example of a steady market. Would just be nice to have something to compare to when you go to sell animals. Hell I wish I could be like the Bells or Davis or any of them. But when you get in the animals to late it just dont happen unless you hit it big with your own animal. I'd rather keep geckos that not alot of people have and not have to drop 200K into an animal juts because there are only 6 in the country.

 

[Docmurder]

I don't think there should be any price standards. I think that the american capitalistic economy will work out for the best. there is a certain line that people cannot go under and make any money. a certain value placed on the time and money invested in the animal. people don't breed geckos to lose money. They would at least like to make out even.

this is what happens. lets say for example gecko A is overproduced and becomes an $8 animal. this means people are going to get out of them because they are losing or not gaining any money, thereby creating a lower production of animals which will decrease the "supply" and create more "demand" eventually the value of the animal will come up again. or the value could stay constant if the market supports the amount of animals produced. the problems occur when too many or too little of the animals occur. basically the economy will balance itself.

 

[aquapimp]

I tend to believe that the market drives itself, without any outside interference. I also am under the assumption that most of us re-invest any "profit" back into our collections (I know I do!).

 

[Knobtailman]

Yeah, I agree in the way that I don't think prices should keep dropping but I think we should set a standard so that prices aren't extremely expensive but yet don't keep dropping. That's my opinion.

 

[Reptiluvr]

The issue of prices dropping drastically is quite a problem. I believe this will make it easier for some to get ahold of animals that may not have diverse enough bloodlines to be in the hands of too many. This can cause much confusion as to who has what bloodline and what pairing is best for the species. I believe Hemidactylus triedrus is one of these species with a price that has plummeted but few know where the animals truly originated.

 

[sschind]

They are my animals and I can sell them for whatever I want. I don't owe it to anyone to keep my prices artificially high, or low. If I price them too low, I lose out. If I price them too high I don't sell any. If you buy any reptiles based on the potential profit you might make off their babies you should be prepared for a big shock when it comes time to find out what you can actually get for them when it comes time for you to sell them.

 

[Knobtailman]

Most people though just by one reptile for a pet then get more and then start breeding as a hobby and maybe to make some extra money and then as they get more they turn there hobby into a business but when you turn it into a business and prices keep going down but quicker then before, they lose money because sometimes prices drop quicker then other times but it's not fair because maybe when they were doing it as a hobby prices were going down slower or not at all.

 

[Torin]

I think making some kind of list based on various factor's is a great idea. I'm tired of seeing so many animals sold for outrageous prices that I know are just made up almost at random. On the other side of the coin there are animals you rarely see being sold for close to nothing, and then of course n00bs buy them, and they disappear never to be heard from again.

 

[Bowfinger]

The issue of prices dropping drastically is quite a problem. I believe this will make it easier for some to get ahold of animals that may not have diverse enough bloodlines to be in the hands of too many. This can cause much confusion as to who has what bloodline and what pairing is best for the species. I believe Hemidactylus triedrus is one of these species with a price that has plummeted but few know where the animals truly originated.

This is true for the problem directed at the species and a big problem.

As for financial problems that effect your pocket book, many people get in this for fun but more for profit even if they do not admit it. Every newbie that gets out due to unstability of the market costs us all the ability to sell and create sound breeding populations. Markets do correct themselves but people can make sale errors less costly as a whole with a study/economic understanding site.

 

[sschind]

Most people though just by one reptile for a pet then get more and then start breeding as a hobby and maybe to make some extra money and then as they get more they turn there hobby into a business but when you turn it into a business and prices keep going down but quicker then before, they lose money because sometimes prices drop quicker then other times but it's not fair because maybe when they were doing it as a hobby prices were going down slower or not at all.

But that is the exact reason why the price drops quicker. The more people who do exactly what you said, the quicker the price drops. I fail to see what is not fair about it. It may be unfortunate for that person but it is neither fair or unfair.

 

[Bowfinger]

But that is the exact reason why the price drops quicker. The more people who do exactly what you said, the quicker the price drops. I fail to see what is not fair about it. It may be unfortunate for that person but it is neither fair or unfair.

Fair or not, it is not good for the geckos as everything declines with the price, i.e. genetic standards, sanitary standards (disease is common in all the commonly bred geckos). I also find just by posting something on Kingsnake often lowers the perception of price and/or quantity when it is the same few individuals up for sale. It seems to be the truelly rare geckos suffering this while the common ones are hyped well above typical mark up. The public educated on this would help everyone.