nest/roost box designs

[Barker]

I just wonder if anyone knows or by experience in keeping has a feel for the best design for what Tokay nest and or roost boxes should look like. I want to build seven or so out of wood, probably untreated teak (recycled) for durability that I can mount on the house walls under eaves and maybe some other areas in the garden.

I have heard that Tokays like to lay their eggs in a large communal area is this true?

At the moment the Tokays are living in fuse boxes and aircon units partly and at night the house walls and trees nearest the house and although doing well it cant be nice as the boxes are metal and noisy. I haven't discovered where they are laying their eggs yet just see the juveniles appearing with the adults at night. The ones I see on the trees have turned blackish you can hardly see the orange spots anymore.

I wonder how big the boxes should be and if the bottoms should be open like in bat boxes or closed with a loverd front. I had this sort of flat very wide post box idea with a decent overhang protecting the entrance/s from weather. Should the entrance be at the bottom so they crawl up or at the top so they crawl down into it? Things like that.

Would one male take over a box with a few females or how do they arrange things? At the moment they have divided up the house and garden into about seven areas where they call from.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Since they're in the wild, I'd just leave them alone to find their own places to lay the eggs.

 

[Barker]

Since they're in the wild, I'd just leave them alone to find their own places to lay the eggs.

They are in the wild or garden but the population was introduced by me four years ago as our local population in Hong Kong is completely extinct due to collection for the medicinal trade over centuries no doubt. There is rumoured to be a small population surviving on one of the tiny inhabited islands but no one has concrete proof recordings or photo's that I've come across. This population is always mentioned in lists as a possibility, but I suspect it's long gone.

I am appalled by the sheer quantity of these creatures sold wholesale in a dried form across the border in mainland Southern China, sacks and sacks and sacks full of flattened and dried Tokays. Where they come from I have no idea but unless farmed on an industrial scale it has to be unsustainable in the very short term. These are also used and sold here in Honk Kong in the medicinal shops retail.

Anyway I live deep in the national park surrounded by dense forest and rocky mountainsides and decided to re-introduce these Tokays. Initially I also assumed they would head out into the forests but they seem to want to stay around the buildings in our compound, the night lights attract insects etc.

I want make sure the population survives long term and spreads, there are of course numerous night predators from large snakes to fishing owls snakes especially hang out in the trees closest to the house to catch the little flying foxes that come to eat fruit. The main problem with our buildings is that they are flat roofed with very little place for the geckos to hide and feel secure so hence the need for "boxes" which Im positive they will use immediately. Interestingly its the females (assumed as they don't call) that stick to the buildings the males call from some distance away on the perimeter. So even if they dont use the boxes for laying eggs its good cover.

There are a few other less domesticated spieces here slightly smaller overall and flatter than Tokays with a mossy pattern that live in the palm trees these never come onto the house like the Tokays and white house geckos do, relieved they havnt been displaced. These palm tree ones I only see when I remove dead fronds they literally shower onto my head, I dont think the tokays cant fit into the tight leaf bases as they arent as flat.

Well thats the long story so Im still up for any suggestions as to box design !

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

THe problem being that most anything you build for outside is likely to get infiltrated by other animals (snakes, birds, etc.). But, if you really want to try, I'd just put out some plastic PVC pipe with a couple of holes drilled in it. They will feel secure in it, it's cheap, and it's completely weather resistant.

 

[Barker]

Hmm I like the pipe idea they are also instant and paintable so wont look so bad only draw back could be wind we get typhoons so it's pretty strong. If I could seal one end the other can face a wall maybe. I was thinking that the boxes would have vertical compartments, stacked pipes inside with the entrance or opening at the bottom maybe, so snakes couldn't just jump in. PVC is a good idea cause its slippery so anything other than a gecko would drop out the bottom assuming it could reach down up and in too.

If I stacked three pipes...actually pipes would be quite difficult to attache to the walls.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

attatch the PVC pipes to a board and then attach the board to the wall

 

[Barker]

In your opinion Ethan would the PVC pipes be hotizontal or vertical which would they prefer? i suppose the diameter wouldnt matter. im thinking I will use the PVC pipes as a short term thing untill i can get the boxes made. I was a little worried about PVC as of course it can get a bit hot or indeed a bit cold on the surface not so ideal for eggs which I think wood would suit better for the insulating thing, they could of course choose which surface to lay or sleep on, if it was square you would of course get four temp options though i dont think inside would differ too much but with a pipe well not sure.

Have to say these geckos are not cheap so far at least twenty have gently crawled out of plastic punits in my hands into various crevises and trees. So far and i was worried they are proving tough and are happy in the dry/cool season in fact they only begin to call at the end of the wet season when the temps drop substantialy from the 30's into the 20%C and lower. But due to the costs involved I would like to get it right. Quite a few have german pedigrees which I find very amusing and just a little incredulous given that Im in the heart of Tokay country. However the premium is of couse worth it as they are as healthy as can be at start with less stress, parasite related etc etc I havnt being hardening them off other than reducing food intake a bit but this hasnt affected them so far I believe.

 

[Barker]

Just a thought heavy as it is wonder if giant bamboo lashd into bundles wouldnt be Ok meantime, i've got tons of it growing here.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Bamboo works great. I use it all the time for my tokays. You'll want to knock out the centers though of course

 

[Barker]

knocking out the centres will be a bit tricky, they are quite long between the internodes about a meter or so that should be long nough. What i thought to do was cut on either side of the middle internode very close but before the internodes on either side so you get like an opening meter bamboo internode then another meter other side open. Make stacks of about five or so tie them together and put em around the roof at different angls etc.

Or is it better to have them open either end? They wil have ample room to turn around as the bamboo is very wide about 4-5inches?

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

I use (and sell) bamboo a lot. I just knock out the centers using an old metal mop handle and a hammer. The membrane between the internodes isn't all that hard. You can do however you like though. Experimenting is part of working with reptiles. With bamboo and pvc I usually drill a hole or two in the sides for them to get in and out of as well as leave the ends open. But that certainly doesn't mean that it's the only way to do it. You just have to make them feel safe and secure.

 

[Barker]

Oh yes I see the classified for your bamboo. It looks good.

I have a few species but the one to use will be the giant D .latiflorus 'Mei -Nung', I use it for the agapornis who love it, minute any thing strange (to them) appears they all jump into the bamboo and run along into the middle. Very attractive with its heavy white bloom while growing and persistent after curing dark lime green and chartreuse stripes.

Besides the poncey description it has strong very large but thin walled culms so actually light to use and handle, much lighter than PCV I like it a lot sawing is easy and it wont crack and splinter being worked. The magic of bamboo. I wonder how long it will last outdoors uncovered.

Indoor/outdoor use is very different, vertical is out of the question because of mosquitoes, even the smallest amount of water is trouble, also the rain etc will make it less snoozy for the gecko. So I realise I will have to use it horizontal like for the birds. This is ok I think cause the diameter is large enough for the gecko to be upside down or not. Also holes would let in water so no need.

 

[billewicz]

Vertical areas in between two surfaces are the preferred egg laying 'nests'. Even wood mounted an inch off of a concrete or cinder block wall will work well. If you use PVC, mount it vertically. Use PVC big enough to hold two adult Tokay and lots of eggs.

Eggs are laid in a long vertical row of pairs, (side-by-side/single clutch), by what appears to be related females and one male presiding.

I've seen photos from Indonesia with 20+ eggs. Imagine my surprise when I found one in one of my reptile room that had a male and three related females loose in it.

 

[Barker]

Oh thats just the kind of info Im looking for thanks for adding that. I think I will go for custom built boxes few inches deep but maybe fairly wide, 70cm or so with a few inner wide vertical compartments of different heights, only access in the box from the bottom up to keep out the predators. Meantime use bamboo stacked verticaly with the tops sealed at a node.

Would the natural laying stimulous be cooler temps as I notice the males only start calling when the temps go down into the 20%C from the 30's which coincides with the dry season?

Twenty or so adult females came in a single batch from Germany so there is a chance some are related I suppose. I love the fact that these reptiles have a social structure of sorts.

 

[billewicz]

Taller is better than wider, and I would not seal off the top to create any dead ends. If a predator enters from one direction, the Tokay needs to be able to exit from the other end.

Temperature and pressure drop which coincides with the rainy season is usually when the calling starts in earnest. Typically that would be January.

As a side note, we just had a large hurricane (typhoon for you) roll though here in the last couple of days. during the first night, all my males were calling together, over top of each other. They did it all night long instead of the typical few at dusk and at dawn.

 

[Barker]

Taller is better than wider, and I would not seal off the top to create any dead ends. If a predator enters from one direction, the Tokay needs to be able to exit from the other end.

Yes probably, I had imagined snakes not being able to climb vertical walls where the boxes will be mounted but actualy a large rat snake or king or other cobra if they were interested could easily reach up from the lower roof but it would still have trouble squeesing in, juveniles wouldn't be able to reach. Not sure if these our more common species around this area would actualy eat geckos but I will leave a couple of inches of vent at the top under the box eave. Birds of prey, rats couldnt get in.

I thought wide so more could fit in.

Temperature and pressure drop which coincides with the rainy season is usually when the calling starts in earnest. Typically that would be January.

As a side note, we just had a large hurricane (typhoon for you) roll though here in the last couple of days. during the first night, all my males were calling together, over top of each other. They did it all night long instead of the typical few at dusk and at dawn.

Thats strange here its the other way around even though we are both in the Northern hemisphere.

Before and during our rainy season the Gg's dont make a sound, they only start getting vocal around September the very begining of our dry cool season, they are calling now.

January is our coldest month and we can have freak days as low as 7-9%C but the rains only start around May then in earnest as in monsoon around June. Rogue typhoons can happen bringing monsoon type weather right up until October. I realy hate typhoons we get so many bearing straight at us all season its always will it wont it will it wont on and off all the time, just when you start thinking oh they dont then they do bring havoc.

Hope your power is on and you had no problems or destruction, I never even knew that the N.E U.S had hurricans! :?