Hypo Tangerine Baldy Carrot tail x Tangerine baldy Carrot tail het tremper Question

nikic613

New member
Basically! My question is....which I am almost positive I have the answer for but it would just be good to hear from the experts on this matter...

I am getting a Tangerine Baldy Carrot tail het tremper.....

from what I know, het tremper means it carries the temper albino gene; Is this correct?

IF so, from what I am assuming, once breeding time comes, if everything goes well, since BOTH are Tang Baldy Carrottails......I SHOULD get all Tangerine Baldy Carrot tails....Correct???

I am also confused about percentages...I always see these percentages and the female I am getting is 66% Het tremper....how does one figure out the percentages.....I feel like its a simple answer...but I can be a ditz.

Pretty excited about this female I'm getting....I'm getting her from Sasobek...fought pretty stressful-ly to win her too (in an auction...never was glued to facebook for so many hours in my life)!!!! :p
 

ChaoFan

New member
Hello, 66% Het for something means that there is a 66% chance that the animal is heterozygous for this recessive gene. Since heterozygous for recessive mutations are not visual and due to the specific genetics of the parents, the breeder cannot tell with certainty, only 66%. I believe parents were both only het for Tremper.
In this case, 25% of offsprings are homozygous for Tremper. The remaining 75% of offspring are visually all not showing Tremper, but 2 out of 3 (66%) are carrying the gene as het.
Hope this helps. You can google "morph calculator" or "Punnet square" for more details ;)

Michele
 

Tokaybyt

New member
What Michele said is correct. To add to or simply repeat what has been said:

When it comes to heterozygous animals, they either are or are not carrying a trait - it is that simple. I'll break this down by the genetics you've provided.

In the case of HTCTB (=hypo tangerine carrot-tail baldy) you're dealing with both selectively bred traits (tangerine and carrot-tail to some extent) and co-dominant traits in the form of hypo baldy. Back in the 1990s all we had were tangerines and hypo tangerines, all from selectively breeding for reduced black spotting and increased orange coloration. Somewhere around 1999 or 2000 a gentleman in the UK produced what was once called the Ray Hine or Hine-line hypo. This was a co-dominant trait, where fully recessive geckos for the most part look relatively normal, the heterozygous form can have or completely lack body spotting but will have a spotted head and tail, and the full dominant form will be virtually spotless on the head and body. Additionally the carrot-tail trait also tied into the Hine-line hypo mutation. It too could be argued co-dominant, but is selectively bred in the capacity as to how much orange is present for the "carrot-tail". The general cut-off back then was that a gecko needed to have genetic lineage traced back to the Hine-line and at least 25% of the tail needed to be orange. Some normal and/or non-Hine-line based animals can and do develop some orange coloration at the base of the tail and it may or may not fade with age.

In this case, your breeding will produce variations of what the adults look like and all hatchlings should be hypo tangerine carrot-tail baldy, or what was once and is still called Super Hypo Tangerine Carrot-tail Baldy (SHTCTB).

Now as for the Tremper albino genetics. As you've stated, the gecko you're getting is listed as 66% het Tremper albino. All three strains of albinism (Tremper, Rainwater, & Bell) are simple Mendelian-based recessive mutations and are also incompatible with one another; that is, in order for either strain, or any recessive mutation, to be expressed the gecko needs to have 2 copies of the albino allele to activate the gene to be visibly expressed. In the case of your future 66% het Tremper albino SHTCTB, again just focusing on the Tremper albino gene, it's parents were both heterozygous for Tremper albino. You'll see such animals listed as het, heterozygous, 100% het or 100% heterozygous. Which brings me back to the statement, the animal is either het or it isn't. You can get additional percentages, but for simplicity there are 3 percentages usually listed in ads:

  1. het, heterozygous, 100% het, or 100% heterozygous
  2. 66% het or 66% possible het
  3. 50% het or 50% possible het

In regards to 66% and 50%, the term "possible" should be included in defining the genetics as that's what is going on genetically - they are possibily het and the 66% or 50% indicate the statistical probability of it being heterozygous or not; whereas an animal listed as het is indicating it is definitely carrying the trait. A 66% possible het occurs from breeding 2 heterozygous animals together. Genotypically (=what genes they will have), this pairing should yield a 1:2:1 ratio of normal : heterozygous : albino. However, phenotypically (=what is visibly expressed) the ratio changes to 3:1 normal : albino since in the case of a recessive, heterozygotes look the same as their normal sibling(s). Of those 3 "normal" siblings, 2 or 66% have the possibility of carrying the albino gene - thus the term 66% het or 66% possible het. 50% het or 50% possible het applies similarly, but instead only 1 parent is heterozygous for a recessive mutation and the other parent is completely normal (=dominant or wild-type). Such a pairing results in a 1:1 ratio of genotype (2 heterozygotes : 2 normal) and a 4:0 ratio of phenotype (4 normal). Of these 4 offspring, 2 are heterozygous, thus 50% het or 50% possible het.

Hopefully this long answer gives you a more simplified and clearer understanding. And for giggles, here's what my original Ray Hine Line carrot-tail looked like in the attachment below. She came from Albey Scholl of Albey's Too Cool Reptiles and as you can see she's of the heterozygous form having spotting on her head, versus the super form which are bald or baldy.

CTLG01-27-22.jpg
 
Last edited:

nikic613

New member
What Michele said is correct. To add to or simply repeat what has been said:

When it comes to heterozygous animals, they either are or are not carrying a trait - it is that simple. I'll break this down by the genetics you've provided.

In the case of HTCTB (=hypo tangerine carrot-tail baldy) you're dealing with both selectively bred traits (tangerine and carrot-tail to some extent) and co-dominant traits in the form of hypo baldy. Back in the 1990s all we had were tangerines and hypo tangerines, all from selectively breeding for reduced black spotting and increased orange coloration. Somewhere around 1999 or 2000 a gentleman in the UK produced what was once called the Ray Hine or Hine-line hypo. This was a co-dominant trait, where fully recessive geckos for the most part look relatively normal, the heterozygous form can have or completely lack body spotting but will have a spotted head and tail, and the full dominant form will be virtually spotless on the head and body. Additionally the carrot-tail trait also tied into the Hine-line hypo mutation. It too could be argued co-dominant, but is selectively bred in the capacity as to how much orange is present for the "carrot-tail". The general cut-off back then was that a gecko needed to have genetic lineage traced back to the Hine-line and at least 25% of the tail needed to be orange. Some normal and/or non-Hine-line based animals can and do develop some orange coloration at the base of the tail and it may or may not fade with age.

In this case, your breeding will produce variations of what the adults look like and all hatchlings should be hypo tangerine carrot-tail baldy, or what was once and is still called Super Hypo Tangerine Carrot-tail Baldy (SHTCTB).

Now as for the Tremper albino genetics. As you've stated, the gecko you're getting is listed as 66% het Tremper albino. All three strains of albinism (Tremper, Rainwater, & Bell) are simple Mendelian-based recessive mutations and are also incompatible with one another; that is, in order for either strain, or any recessive mutation, to be expressed the gecko needs to have 2 copies of the albino allele to activate the gene to be visibly expressed. In the case of your future 66% het Tremper albino SHTCTB, again just focusing on the Tremper albino gene, it's parents were both heterozygous for Tremper albino. You'll see such animals listed as het, heterozygous, 100% het or 100% heterozygous. Which brings me back to the statement, the animal is either het or it isn't. You can get additional percentages, but for simplicity there are 3 percentages usually listed in ads:

  1. het, heterozygous, 100% het, or 100% heterozygous
  2. 66% het or 66% possible het
  3. 50% het or 50% possible het

In regards to 66% and 50%, the term "possible" should be included in defining the genetics as that's what is going on genetically - they are possibily het and the 66% or 50% indicate the statistical probability of it being heterozygous or not; whereas an animal listed as het is indicating it is definitely carrying the trait. A 66% possible het occurs from breeding 2 heterozygous animals together. Genotypically (=what genes they will have), this pairing should yield a 1:2:1 ratio of normal : heterozygous : albino. However, phenotypically (=what is visibly expressed) the ratio changes to 3:1 normal : albino since in the case of a recessive, heterozygotes look the same as their normal sibling(s). Of those 3 "normal" siblings, 2 or 66% have the possibility of carrying the albino gene - thus the term 66% het or 66% possible het. 50% het or 50% possible het applies similarly, but instead only 1 parent is heterozygous for a recessive mutation and the other parent is completely normal (=dominant or wild-type). Such a pairing results in a 1:1 ratio of genotype (2 heterozygotes : 2 normal) and a 4:0 ratio of phenotype (4 normal). Of these 4 offspring, 2 are heterozygous, thus 50% het or 50% possible het.

Hopefully this long answer gives you a more simplified and clearer understanding. And for giggles, here's what my original Ray Hine Line carrot-tail looked like in the attachment below. She came from Albey Scholl of Albey's Too Cool Reptiles and as you can see she's of the heterozygous form having spotting on her head, versus the super form which are bald or baldy.

View attachment 32585


along with Caos and this post you just made WOW....MUCH help! This was what I was looking for because I'm trying my best to understand way before I ever start breeding so I can be educated as much as possible before experience comes into play. THank you soo much for taking the time BOTH of you, to explain this to me it is exactly what I was looking for! Now I need to write this all down and have it handy so I can retain the knowledge and not sound stupid! :) Thank you soooo much!!!

I never knew anything about that original line, I knew something about in the 80s the morph coming up but other than that I knew nothing about the UK breeder...really interesting!!!!

I love the spots on your female in the picture, but for some reason those baldies just get to me the most interest wise! :D

These are my two, the first picture on the left is not a picture I took but it is the female I am receiving I am very excited about it but I haven't a clue when I'm getting her...busy breeder i guess! LOL! mybabies!.jpg
 

nikic613

New member
What Michele said is correct. To add to or simply repeat what has been said:

When it comes to heterozygous animals, they either are or are not carrying a trait - it is that simple. I'll break this down by the genetics you've provided.

In the case of HTCTB (=hypo tangerine carrot-tail baldy) you're dealing with both selectively bred traits (tangerine and carrot-tail to some extent) and co-dominant traits in the form of hypo baldy. Back in the 1990s all we had were tangerines and hypo tangerines, all from selectively breeding for reduced black spotting and increased orange coloration. Somewhere around 1999 or 2000 a gentleman in the UK produced what was once called the Ray Hine or Hine-line hypo. This was a co-dominant trait, where fully recessive geckos for the most part look relatively normal, the heterozygous form can have or completely lack body spotting but will have a spotted head and tail, and the full dominant form will be virtually spotless on the head and body. Additionally the carrot-tail trait also tied into the Hine-line hypo mutation. It too could be argued co-dominant, but is selectively bred in the capacity as to how much orange is present for the "carrot-tail". The general cut-off back then was that a gecko needed to have genetic lineage traced back to the Hine-line and at least 25% of the tail needed to be orange. Some normal and/or non-Hine-line based animals can and do develop some orange coloration at the base of the tail and it may or may not fade with age.

In this case, your breeding will produce variations of what the adults look like and all hatchlings should be hypo tangerine carrot-tail baldy, or what was once and is still called Super Hypo Tangerine Carrot-tail Baldy (SHTCTB).

Now as for the Tremper albino genetics. As you've stated, the gecko you're getting is listed as 66% het Tremper albino. All three strains of albinism (Tremper, Rainwater, & Bell) are simple Mendelian-based recessive mutations and are also incompatible with one another; that is, in order for either strain, or any recessive mutation, to be expressed the gecko needs to have 2 copies of the albino allele to activate the gene to be visibly expressed. In the case of your future 66% het Tremper albino SHTCTB, again just focusing on the Tremper albino gene, it's parents were both heterozygous for Tremper albino. You'll see such animals listed as het, heterozygous, 100% het or 100% heterozygous. Which brings me back to the statement, the animal is either het or it isn't. You can get additional percentages, but for simplicity there are 3 percentages usually listed in ads:

  1. het, heterozygous, 100% het, or 100% heterozygous
  2. 66% het or 66% possible het
  3. 50% het or 50% possible het

In regards to 66% and 50%, the term "possible" should be included in defining the genetics as that's what is going on genetically - they are possibily het and the 66% or 50% indicate the statistical probability of it being heterozygous or not; whereas an animal listed as het is indicating it is definitely carrying the trait. A 66% possible het occurs from breeding 2 heterozygous animals together. Genotypically (=what genes they will have), this pairing should yield a 1:2:1 ratio of normal : heterozygous : albino. However, phenotypically (=what is visibly expressed) the ratio changes to 3:1 normal : albino since in the case of a recessive, heterozygotes look the same as their normal sibling(s). Of those 3 "normal" siblings, 2 or 66% have the possibility of carrying the albino gene - thus the term 66% het or 66% possible het. 50% het or 50% possible het applies similarly, but instead only 1 parent is heterozygous for a recessive mutation and the other parent is completely normal (=dominant or wild-type). Such a pairing results in a 1:1 ratio of genotype (2 heterozygotes : 2 normal) and a 4:0 ratio of phenotype (4 normal). Of these 4 offspring, 2 are heterozygous, thus 50% het or 50% possible het.

Hopefully this long answer gives you a more simplified and clearer understanding. And for giggles, here's what my original Ray Hine Line carrot-tail looked like in the attachment below. She came from Albey Scholl of Albey's Too Cool Reptiles and as you can see she's of the heterozygous form having spotting on her head, versus the super form which are bald or baldy.

View attachment 32585

sorry if I posted this twice, for some reason I swear this forum dislikes me :p Not only do i have trouble posting, but it also wont let me change my password, and no way to "forget my password" so I'm clinging to life on the fact that I still have my cookies saved for this site to be able to keep using my account here ha ha!


along with Caos and this post you just made WOW....MUCH help! This was what I was looking for because I'm trying my best to understand way before I ever start breeding so I can be educated as much as possible before experience comes into play. THank you soo much for taking the time BOTH of you, to explain this to me it is exactly what I was looking for! Now I need to write this all down and have it handy so I can retain the knowledge and not sound stupid! :) Thank you soooo much!!!

I never knew anything about that original line, I knew something about in the 80s the morph coming up but other than that I knew nothing about the UK breeder...really interesting!!!!

I love the spots on your female in the picture, but for some reason those baldies just get to me the most interest wise! :D

These are my two, the first picture on the left is not a picture I took but it is the female I am receiving I am very excited about it but I haven't a clue when I'm getting her...busy breeder i guess! LOL! View attachment 32608
 
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