Hello!

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

I'm come in behalf of Smaug. He's sleeping now so I feel free to call myself his owner.

He's not my first reptile. That honor goes to a ball python named Beauty Queen. But it has been a couple years since I've had one so I need to brush up.

I chose leopard geckos because they're known for their tameability. Beauty Queen was an incredibly docile snake so I wanted something else that could give me the same--dare I say companionship?

So far so good. Smaug's profile is listed below, let me know if you have other questions.

My main questions are regarding:

Taming! How do I train this dragon? I mean... tame this gecko? So far, he turns his nose up at me when I approach his cage, especially during the day when he can't be bothered with my face -- or my camera (Picture pending!). I haven't ventured out to actually try to hand tame him of course. That might strain what little tolerance he has for me.

Feeding! Currently I've decided on a diet of crickets, mealworms and silkworms. Gutloading I'm not too sure about. Feeding the prey animals healthy diets and giving them food to eat that's full of nutrients is not enough apparently. What's the best way to gut load feeder animals?

Weighing! Smaug is -not- tame. He seems rather antisocial, coming out of hides only when I leave the room. So far I've managed to keep him out with me 30 seconds before he finally realizes I'm not going away and crawls back into his cave. So obviously I haven't been able to touch him, much less weigh him.

* * * Smaug's info * * *

General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Smaug
Morph: Normal
Gender: Undetermined
Age: 3month
Weight: Undetermined
Total length: about 3 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: Just acquired
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Petsmart
Captive bred or wild caught: Captive bred

[/u]Vivarium[/u]
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth):12x12x30
Cage (type, size): 20 gallon long glass aquarium
Substrate provided: Reptile Carpet
Types of hiding places provided: Warm hide dry, Moist hide and 2 cool hides
Is there a humidity hide? location?: Yes, warm side
Please describe any other furnishings: Fake vine, river rocks
List recent changes in the environment, if any: Just came home!

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): None
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): None
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: Yes

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? Yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): LCD strip
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 88ish
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 80-85ish
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 75ish
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): Undertank heater and Ceramic Heat Emitter
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): Yes
Are you using a thermostat(s)? no
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Either under the vines or in the cool side hide closest to the middle. (Bascially I love the middle of my enclosure)
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? Not that I know of

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? No
Humidity range: Unknown

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Small brown crickets, small mealworms, silkworms
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: Flukers orange cubes for the crickets, Potato and oatmeal mix for the mealworms, Green Silkworm Food for the silk worms.
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? They're maintained on a nutritious diet and are not normally supplemented
How often do you feed your gecko? Daily
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? one multivitamin (no D3) dusting and 2 calcium dustings (with D3, no phosphorus) per week.
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Rep-Cal With D3
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? No
Multivitamins (include brand name)? RepCal
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: None

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: Not sick!
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? Normal
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? Normal
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): Gotten a little fatter since I bought him a few days ago
Discharge from the eyes or nose: Nope
Increased breathing rate or effort: no
Change in the droppings: no
Urates
---white or yellowish: White
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: small
Abnormal skin color or shedding: no
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no
Weakness: no

Previous problems and/or illnesses:

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: Dog named Sammy is not allowed near me. He's a barbarian
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: I am the master of my domain.
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): Nope
Are any of your other pets ill? Nope

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? Yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): LCD strip
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 88ish
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 80-85ish
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 75ish
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): Undertank heater and Ceramic Heat Emitter
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): Yes
Are you using a thermostat(s)? no
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Either under the vines or in the cool side hide closest to the middle. (Bascially I love the middle of my enclosure)
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? Not that I know of

A warm welcome to Geckos Unlimited.

Thanks for being super thorough and posting our Health Questionnaire up front.

You mention an LCD strip thermometer. Those just give ballpark numbers.

• Suggest getting a good quality digital thermometer with a probe right away. All leo husbandry is based upon certain temperatures: 88-93*F warm end ground maximum.
• Good idea to let your leo settle in prior to any handling. Then go about it gradually. To your leo you are a SASQUATCH!
• Excellent insect and worm variety! Let's spruce up the food your feeders get. Feed the crickets and worms a good dry diet in addition to specific veggies. Click here: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html
  
• Suggest a Hydrofarm MTPRTC thermostat to keep temperatures stable.

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

Thanks for your kind words and your recommendation of a Thermostat and Thermometer!

I live on the east coast but I think I can get all the things for the crickets/Mealworms. Just one question though: Is there any specific way to prepare the ZooMed Bearded dragon food for the Crickets and mealworms? I have small versions of each of these.

The Sasquatch remark made me laugh. I keep birds as well as reptiles, and while I have one really good experience with a ****atiel named "Glasses" that grew accoustomed to me in about 10, all of my small animals and reptiles took about 30 days to feel really comfortable. I had heard about Leos being the more curiouser and tamier sort, but I suppose they would have to be consistently handled from the egg and my gecko certainly was not.

Slightly disappointed yes. Surprised? Not really.

I'll be looking for that thermometer!

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

Ok so, I have the Thermostat on the way here through the mail.

The digital Thermometer was easy to find. Surprisingly the Zoomed stuff took me 3 stores when I thought that would be the first thing I'd find but I glad I looked because wow do those crickets love it. There's like five of them in a tug of war with one pellet...

I got the alfalfa hay and collard greens (plus a little for myself because I love them too.)

The Digital Thermometer is telling me that the floor is 95.5 degrees, not the recommended 88 to 93. I'm not sure what to do now. Should I unplug the heat lamp? Without the Thermostat I'm kinda stuck and that could take a week to get here. No wonder Smaug preferred the middle of the enclosure.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks for your kind words and your recommendation of a Thermostat and Thermometer!

I live on the east coast but I think I can get all the things for the crickets/Mealworms. Just one question though: Is there any specific way to prepare the ZooMed Bearded dragon food for the Crickets and mealworms? I have small versions of each of these.

The Sasquatch remark made me laugh. I keep birds as well as reptiles, and while I have one really good experience with a ****atiel named "Glasses" that grew accoustomed to me in about 10, all of my small animals and reptiles took about 30 days to feel really comfortable. I had heard about Leos being the more curiouser and tamier sort, but I suppose they would have to be consistently handled from the egg and my gecko certainly was not.

Slightly disappointed yes. Surprised? Not really.

I'll be looking for that thermometer!

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Small brown crickets, small mealworms, silkworms
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: Flukers orange cubes for the crickets, Potato and oatmeal mix for the mealworms, Green Silkworm Food for the silk worms.
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? They're maintained on a nutritious diet and are not normally supplemented
How often do you feed your gecko? Daily
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? one multivitamin (no D3) dusting and 2 calcium dustings (with D3, no phosphorus) per week.
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Rep-Cal With D3
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? No
Multivitamins (include brand name)? RepCal
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: None

You're welcome. Laughing is good! Helps refresh our spirits. Your critter background is interesting. As you say, every critter is different when it comes to handling.

I'd only buy Zoo Med's Natural Adult Bearded Dragon Food after you run out of both. Just use the Adult beardie food first. Then try mixing the Adult with the Juvenile food. If you see loose stools, cut back or eliminate the Juvenile food. The Juvenile food has more fiber.

Alber's and Purina Layena Sunfresh Crumbles poultry foods are also good. They are less expensive than the beardie food. hmarie186 has thoroughly researched those. She highly recommends either.

Each of the balanced feeds above contains some vitamin A acetate. The better the diet you feed the crickets and the mealworms, the less you will need to dust. Focus on a nutritious diet first; very light dusting is secondary.

You may wish to grind the beardie food for young crickets and maybe the mealworms in a coffee grinder. Try it unground to see whether they will eat it. (I rarely use mealworms.) For the mealworms: Use a ziploc or other plastic container. Place the ground beardie food as the substrate for maybe half the container. On the other side place a shallow lid with chopped up collard greens or pesticide-free dandelion greens/flowers. Those will add moisture. Use veggies high in calcium and low in phosphorus. Note the USDA foods link in the Cricket Guidelines.

I spray a paper towel which I've layered over the egg flats for cricket moisture.

Are you using Rep Cal's Herptivite multivitamin? There are studies on chameleons which say that chameleons do not utilize vitamin A in the form of beta carotene. That's why I like Zoo Med's Reptivite (no D3) multivitamin.

Consider getting plain Reptivite now. Only need a very small pinch 1x per week.

Rep Cal's Calcium with D3 contains the highest D3 levels of any supplement I know. Not really good. Consider switching to Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 next time you buy calcium with D3.

#103---Balancing Zoo Med's Reptivite multivitamin & Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3
Reasons to ONLY use a wee pinch of Reptivite multivitamins 1x weekly + light dustings of Repti Calcium with D3 2x weekly.

• My vet recommends only a wee pinch of Reptivite multivitamin 1x weekly.
• In my experience, geckos seem to require ONLY a small amount of vitamin A acetate + other vitamins as long as their insects and worms are well fed.
• Both Reptivite multivitamins (with and without vitamin D3) contain enough phosphorus to make the dusting levels roughly 2 parts calcium : 1 part phosphorus before you even consider the high phosphorus naturally contained in bugs.
• Too much phosphorus impairs calcium absorption.
• Both Zoo Med Repti Calciums are phosphorus-free, so you can lightly dust for D3 without adding phosphorus at all.
• Both Reptivite multivitamins also contain calcium carbonate.
• I focus more on a good dry diet for the bugs and the worms. Consider light dusting of no D3 Reptivite multivitamins and Repti Calcium with D3 as secondary.
• Calcium needs to be taken with food for proper absorption.
• Some geckos do not much like the taste of Reptivite on their bugs.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Ok so, I have the Thermostat on the way here through the mail.

The digital Thermometer was easy to find. Surprisingly the Zoomed stuff took me 3 stores when I thought that would be the first thing I'd find but I glad I looked because wow do those crickets love it. There's like five of them in a tug of war with one pellet...

I got the alfalfa hay and collard greens (plus a little for myself because I love them too.)

The Digital Thermometer is telling me that the floor is 95.5 degrees, not the recommended 88 to 93. I'm not sure what to do now. Should I unplug the heat lamp? Without the Thermostat I'm kinda stuck and that could take a week to get here. No wonder Smaug preferred the middle of the enclosure.

Let Smaug be your guide. Unplug the heat lamp till the thermostat arrives. Consider getting a Lutron dimmer to tweak the overhead heat.

One problem: How about returning the Alfalfa Hay? Sorry. It seems as if my crickets do not really eat that. I am now looking for an alfalfa meal to see whether that is more palatable.

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

Let Smaug be your guide. Unplug the heat lamp till the thermostat arrives. Consider getting a Lutron dimmer to tweak the overhead heat.

One problem: How about returning the Alfalfa Hay? Sorry. It seems as if my crickets do not really eat that. I am now looking for an alfalfa meal to see whether that is more palatable.

Ah I'm afraid I've already opened the Alfafa. No worries! I have a friend who has a rabbit! Um... Merry Christmas for the bunny! :blushing:

I did turn the lamp off and the temp dropped to 87.5 on the floor. I feel like I want to leave it on rather than have it too cold. Is that okay? He really does eat a lot now that he doesn't have to share it with 4-5 other lizards in the petstore tank. He's probably still digesting the mealworms he scarfed like a pig last night. He can stay in the middle hide where he seems to be comfy.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Ah I'm afraid I've already opened the Alfafa. No worries! I have a friend who has a rabbit! Um... Merry Christmas for the bunny! :blushing:

I did turn the lamp off and the temp dropped to 87.5 on the floor. I feel like I want to leave it on rather than have it too cold. Is that okay? He really does eat a lot now that he doesn't have to share it with 4-5 other lizards in the petstore tank. He's probably still digesting the mealworms he scarfed like a pig last night. He can stay in the middle hide where he seems to be comfy.

Lucky bunny! (Just belatedly updated those Cricket Guidelines. Will amend those in the Leo Care Sheet later today.)

What size is your UTH as compared with the tank size? Most the ground heat should come from the UTH.

Really need separate ways to control the UTH and the overhead heat.

If Smaug is self regulating and has cooler options, leaving the overhead heat on is OK till the Hydrofarm arrives. Just monitor the ouput in multiple locations. 88-93*F is the suggested maximum for ground temperatures. Have you found any ground temperatures warmer than 95.5 F?

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

Lucky bunny! (Just belatedly updated those Cricket Guidelines. Will amend those in the Leo Care Sheet later today.)

What size is your UTH as compared with the tank size? Most the ground heat should come from the UTH.

Really need separate ways to control the UTH and the overhead heat.

If Smaug is self regulating and has cooler options, leaving the overhead heat on is OK till the Hydrofarm arrives. Just monitor the ouput in multiple locations. 88-93*F is the suggested maximum for ground temperatures. Have you found any ground temperatures warmer than 95.5 F?

Ok so... I improvised. I moved the lamp so that is doesn't shine directly but is leaning slightly so that it is wasting some heat into the air outside the cage.

Yeah he's got a lot of energy and explores a lot in his cage. The temperature is a shade too warm at 93.3 on the warm side but he's sitting in his warm hide. So he must be happy there or else he would most certainly move.

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

Ok Update!

Heating: I woke up and we were 95 degrees again despite my best effort. I will just have to be my -own- thermostat and check the temps frequently until the real device comes in the mail. Fortunately, I'm working from home so I can keep an eye on it all week.

Feeding: The mealworms and the crickets have their new substrates and food. Smaug ate 3 undusted mealworms last night.

Taming: He likes his warm hide now and the warm hide has very large openings and I can see him in there and he can see me. So we're getting a lot more "face-time". He'll leave his warm hide after a while to move to the cool side log ((which is silly, I'm not bothering him.)) only to come back to the warm hide asap when I move away. I need to find some time today to just sit there and watch Youtube until he stops moving back to his cool hide for no reason. Then I'll think about putting my hands in there.

EDIT: So funny story, after I posted that I walked back in my room and he was on his way back into the warm hide, he freezes. And I just move farther away into the corner. He starts heading back to the cool side and then is about to go in the cool-side hide and then turns around and looks. He stands there for about 15 seconds before turning back to his original journey to the warm side.

But then he passes the warm hide and stood on one of the rocks, stood really tall and slowly waved his tail at me. I think I read somewhere that this is like an "Not sure about you" behavior? Anyway, it's the first time he's actually communicated with me so -- not gonna lie -- I'm stoked. I knew he was being silly with the whole "Hide in the cool side." thing. Smaug fears no Sasquatch. Eventually he finished his journey to the warm hide.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Ok Update!
......

Taming: He likes his warm hide now and the warm hide has very large openings and I can see him in there and he can see me. So we're getting a lot more "face-time". He'll leave his warm hide after a while to move to the cool side log ((which is silly, I'm not bothering him.)) only to come back to the warm hide asap when I move away. I need to find some time today to just sit there and watch Youtube until he stops moving back to his cool hide for no reason. Then I'll think about putting my hands in there.

EDIT: So funny story, after I posted that I walked back in my room and he was on his way back into the warm hide, he freezes. And I just move farther away into the corner. He starts heading back to the cool side and then is about to go in the cool-side hide and then turns around and looks. He stands there for about 15 seconds before turning back to his original journey to the warm side.

But then he passes the warm hide and stood on one of the rocks, stood really tall and slowly waved his tail at me. I think I read somewhere that this is like an "Not sure about you" behavior? Anyway, it's the first time he's actually communicated with me so -- not gonna lie -- I'm stoked. I knew he was being silly with the whole "Hide in the cool side." thing. Smaug fears no Sasquatch. Eventually he finished his journey to the warm hide.

:idea:: Is Smaug's cool hide more private? Perhaps he is getting too much "face-time"? He seems to prefer being hidden at times.

Your story makes me smile. :biggrin: Enjoying our geckos is so much fun!

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

:idea:: Is Smaug's cool hide more private? Perhaps he is getting too much "face-time"? He seems to prefer being hidden at times.

Your story makes me smile. :biggrin: Enjoying our geckos is so much fun!

He spends the majority of his time in this hide here.



Compare that to the warm hide:



I can see right through this one. There's plenty of places to be hidden in his cage. Even in the warm hide, I can't see him if he's against the walls. However, the log is the only place where I absolutely cannot see him.

This morning, Smaug had to choose between being in the log or warming up, so when I backed away, I guess the choice got a bit easier so he was able to warm up with me in the room. I'm not big on forcing interaction. I'd much rather he choose to see me. If he went back to the log, I would have left and let him back into the warm hide but I'm very happy that he chose to warm himself in my presence.

Although, he went out of his way to let me know that this did not mean we were friends.

Of course not, Smaug. Of course not. :biggrin:

 

[majahawt]

I went through the same thing with both of my geckos - for about 2-3 months after I got them, they would only come out when I wasn't in the room and bolt back into their hides when I came back. Don't worry too much about it, after a while he'll get used to you. Try to make it very clear that you are the food-bringer (feed a mealworm from your hand, for example) and calmly talk to him during feeding, just to get him used to your voice. It'll help but it might take a while :3

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

I went through the same thing with both of my geckos - for about 2-3 months after I got them, they would only come out when I wasn't in the room and bolt back into their hides when I came back. Don't worry too much about it, after a while he'll get used to you. Try to make it very clear that you are the food-bringer (feed a mealworm from your hand, for example) and calmly talk to him during feeding, just to get him used to your voice. It'll help but it might take a while :3

He doesn't eat when I'm around. The only time I've ever seen him eat was when he was already in mid hunt and I sat in the doorway to watch him. ((He's extremely clumsy, belly flopping into the water dish to get a cricket on the other side of it.)) But honestly I don't think he knew I was there until I stood up so I'm not sure it counts toward taming. I'm not sure how good their eyesight is.

Tonight I'll put some crickets in his cage and go back to the corner to see if he comes out. If not, I'll just turn the lights out and leave again.

I sincerely hope it doesn't take a full 60 days to keep him from hiding from me. He doesn't seem like an inherently fearful animal. Just an animal that needs time and space and the opportunity to not be scared.

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

I took your advice and started talking quietly while I'm putting the feeder crickets. I only put in 3 because I knew that he would be kinda distracted by me being there and probably wouldn't eat much today. He was sitting in his warm hide because the Ceramic Heat emitter was off and the temps were dropping.

I had planned to place the crickets in the enclosure and wait by the door to see if he would come out, but two of the three decided to run straight into the warm hide and get themselves eaten, completely defeating the purpose of the exercise. :-x

There was still one left. I wasn't sure if that would be enough to lure him out but after a minute or so he peeked out and saw me and withdrew. So I left the room for another minute and came back. He was halfway out and withdrew again. We played peekaboo for a few minutes before I stopped leaving the room and hoped he would come out with me there.

He did eventually. To my surprise he came all the way out and stared straight at me, just like before. Then he withdrew again, this time all the way to the back of the hide, making it abundantly clear that he was done. He wasn't nearly as hungry as before. So I turned the light off and left.

I'll check to see if he's eaten the last cricket before I go to sleep tonight. I hope he gets it because I don't want to reach in there and undo all the progress.

Animals are fun.:coverlaugh: I want so bad to take a good picture of him but right now it's impossible.

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

Just an update:

His appetite has really spiked. I'm happy about this because he was looking slim compared to the other geckos I see in the pictures on this forum. I wish, I wish I could show a picture for you guys but I just can't get him to sit still with me around and get a good picture.

He's not running to his log hide any more. Sometimes I can tell he's tempted but in the end, staying in the warm hide is just -more- desireable than getting out of sight. So long as I don't make any sudden moves or noises, he watches me suspiciously from the back of the warm hide where we can see each other.

Yesterday he downed 8 mealworms and proceeded to power nap the entire day. This morning I got concerned because he wasn't moving, so I slightly lifted his hide. He's fine. Just probably digesting that huge meal. I noticed the base of his tail getting plump.

My silkworms are stuck in transit. I have no idea where they are. They're probably stuck between Tonka and Barbie. I just hope some of them arrive alive but as time ticks by I'm becoming less and less optimistic. My thermostat isn't shipping until today for similar reasons, meaning that I probably won't get it until Monday next week.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Great news that Smaug has been eating and is "waiting patiently" in his warm hide! We like videos too. ;-)

What does the silkworm company say? Shipping is iffy during the holidays. Hang tight.

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

Great news that Smaug has been eating and is "waiting patiently" in his warm hide! We like videos too. ;-)

What does the silkworm company say? Shipping is iffy during the holidays. Hang tight.

I stopped by the post office and they weren't there. They said that they are probably in a shipping bottle neck and are waiting to be transported to my specific city. Because of the high volume of packages there's just a line to get on the trucks right now.

I just gotta wait.

EDIT: The Silkworm Company says they can't even file a complaint until the time reaches 7 days.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

 

[Smaug_The_Gecko]

Haha 2x frowny face is right. I'll be happy if half the silkworms are moving when they get here.

On a much brighter note, Smaug ate 5 crickets last night. I came in this morning to check to see if they were all gone, still talking as I did so and got the cricket food to refresh the keeper. As I was leaving, Smaug came out of his hide and stood in the entrance, then proceeded to walk around the hide.

My surprise that he came out with me so close to the cage was overshadowed by my surprised that he was -still- hungry!

So question, I know I should be feeding him every day but do they over eat? This guy's a monster.

I did feed him two more crickets this morning more as a reward for coming out to see me. And he ate those quickly, one he ate right in front of me (though I was a bit of a distance from the enclosure.)