Eyeball my leopard gecko for healthy shed and weight?

[muffin_song]

Hi all -

Attached are two pictures of Scooter. I've had her for about two months now and things seem to be going fine, but I wanted to check in about a few things. I also included her health sheet at the bottom of this post.

1. Just from appearance, does she look like she's at a healthy weight? Which leads me to...

2. Is there a specific scale that people recommend for weighing leos?

3. I often will notice some whiteness near her toes. Is this stuck shed, or is it common for toes to look like that? If it is stuck shed, it's hard to see where it breaks off from the rest of the her body. In the pictures below, she had just recently shed.





I feel like at this point I have very little to add to this forum, but I always love reading what other people's geckos are up to. Thanks as always for the pointers!!!

Health information:

General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Scooter
Morph: Normal
Gender: Female
Age: 2 years
Weight: Not sure
Total length: About 7 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: Recently acquired
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Previous owner was my mother, who bought her from a non-big box pet store about 18 months ago
Captive bred or wild caught: Captive bred

[/u]Vivarium[/u]
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth):12x12x30
Cage (type, size): 20 gallon long glass aquarium
Substrate provided: 90% tile, 10% paper towel
Types of hiding places provided: Warm hide, cool hide, moist warm hide
Is there a humidity hide? location?: Yes, warm side
Please describe any other furnishings: Fake plants
List recent changes in the environment, if any: None

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): None
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: Yes
Note: I live in a studio apartment, meaning if I have the lights on at night, Scooter will see it. I try to reduce the lighting at night and point it away from her cage.

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? Yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): I have two Jumpstart Hydrofarm digital probes. The one inside her warm moist side is set to 91, and is connected to the UTH. The other measures her cool side, is not currently connected to anything.
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 88 to 92ish.
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: Not sure, need to get an air thermometer.
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: Room temperature, so 75ish
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): Medium (made for 30-40 gallon tanks) UTH from reptitherm.
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): Yes, also going to add some tiles, don't want my apartment to catch on fire!
Are you using a thermostat(s)? Yes, one for UTH.
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Recently she rotates between her cool hide and her warm dry hide when she's sleeping. When she's more active will hang out on top of a hide/
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? Right now no.

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? No, need to get on that!
Humidity range: Unknown

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Dubias are her staple. I add in meal worms, horn worms, and butter worms for variety.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: Total Bites, which is a cube supplement for moisture + vitamins.
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? For the refrigerated mealworms, I take them out about 12 hours before feeding and put them in a container with turnip greens and oatmeal. The dubias have the Total Bites gel supplement.

How often do you feed your gecko? Every other day - every three days
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Right now I'm dusting all insects with 50% calcium, 50% RepCal with D3.

What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Unbranded, got at local reptile store
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? No
Multivitamins (include brand name)? RepCal with D3.
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: I gave her butter worms for the first time last week.

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: Currently not sick
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? Normal
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? Normal
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): None
Discharge from the eyes or nose: Nope
Increased breathing rate or effort: no
Change in the droppings: no
Urates
---white or yellowish: White
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: Roughly the same
Abnormal skin color or shedding: no
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no
Weakness: no

Previous problems and/or illnesses: Scooter went through a period about six months ago (while living with her previous owner, my mom) when she was wasn't eating and became very skinny. My mom reexamined the husbandry and gave her something (an antibiotic? Don't remember) with a stopper, and now she's back to having a nice, healthy tail.

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: Just me
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: None
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): None
Are any of your other pets ill? Nope

 

[Tokaybyt]

She's on the beefier side of things, but visually appears healthy.

As for a scale...if you have a Harbor Freight where you live, stop by it for one of these.

Digital Pocket Scale

It has an accuracy of ± 0.1 gram with a max of 500 grams, currently on sale for $13.99.

 

[Russellm0704]

I'd say she is a little too plump. Maybe just feed less at each feeding?

 

[muffin_song]

Thank you Russell and Chris - I had a feeling that was the case, but I wanted someone else's opinion.

Thanks for the tip about Harbor Freight, I'll go and pick up a digital scale today and give her a proper weighing. From there I'll work on how to scale back a little at feeding time.

Scooter can't talk, but whether she realizes it or not she's grateful for all the help we get on this forum!

 

[muffin_song]

Okay, so I was able to weigh her today, and she comes in at 69 grams. She's about 8 inches long (including tail), and is about 2 years old. Combined with her visual appearance, should I be scaling back her food?

Right now I offer her up to about 4 medium dubias, three times a week. (The dubias are sometimes substituted with butterworms or meal worms for variety)...should I be lowering this to more like 3 dubias or equivalent insects per feeding?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Okay, so I was able to weigh her today, and she comes in at 69 grams. She's about 8 inches long (including tail), and is about 2 years old. Combined with her visual appearance, should I be scaling back her food?

Right now I offer her up to about 4 medium dubias, three times a week. (The dubias are sometimes substituted with butterworms or meal worms for variety)...should I be lowering this to more like 3 dubias or equivalent insects per feeding?

I vote for cutting back Scooter's food some. Butterworms and mealworms are probably higher in fat than dubia, depending upon what you feed them.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Comments from your thorough Health Questionnaire report!

Lucky Scooter! He has a nice mix of bugs and worms. :cheer:

1. Are you doing pretty good keeping Scooter's warm moist hide moist 24/7?
2. I can't see the toe whiteness you have mentioned.
3. Room humidity 40-50% is good. I would not worry at all as long as Scooter sheds well. I live on the NW Oregon coast. My living room humidity runs about 47-50%.
4. So something is elevating your enclosure to give your UTH ventilation? Have you added the tiles now?
5. As long as room temperatures drop no lower than ~68*F during the night, it's OK to turn off the UTH for 8-11 hours.
6. A digital thermometer's probe will measure air temps.
7. Urates are usually about 1/3 the size of the feces. Good that Scooter's are white.
8. Rep-Cal's calcium with D3 contains more D3 than any other like product on the market. That is not a good thing. I'd use it no more than 1x per week. When you run out, how about Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 instead?
9. Consider adding a multivitamin. I like and use Zoo Med's plain (no D3) Reptivite multivitamins. However, maybe Scooter is "covered" with his varied diet?
10. Turnip greens are great, high calcium and low phosphorus! However, they are very high in vitamin A. I don't know if that's a problematic level. For a veggie significantly lower in vitamin A than turnip greens, check out collards. Play around with the USDA link: Foods List
11. Total Bites is very low in protein with more than 3x the fat. It's extremely high in fiber. I like to use feeder food that contains about 16% protein and 3-5% fat. Click: Nature Zone Total Bites for Feeder Insects: Reptiles Feeder Insect Diet

 

[muffin_song]

Comments from your thorough Health Questionnaire report!

Lucky Scooter! He has a nice mix of bugs and worms. :cheer:

1. Are you doing pretty good keeping Scooter's warm moist hide moist 24/7?
2. I can't see the toe whiteness you have mentioned.
3. Room humidity 40-50% is good. I would not worry at all as long as Scooter sheds well. I live on the NW Oregon coast. My living room humidity runs about 47-50%.
4. So something is elevating your enclosure to give your UTH ventilation? Have you added the tiles now?
5. As long as room temperatures drop no lower than ~68*F during the night, it's OK to turn off the UTH for 8-11 hours.
6. A digital thermometer's probe will measure air temps.
7. Urates are usually about 1/3 the size of the feces. Good that Scooter's are white.
8. Rep-Cal's calcium with D3 contains more D3 than any other like product on the market. That is not a good thing. I'd use it no more than 1x per week. When you run out, how about Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 instead?
9. Consider adding a multivitamin. I like and use Zoo Med's plain (no D3) Reptivite multivitamins. However, maybe Scooter is "covered" with his varied diet?
10. Turnip greens are great, high calcium and low phosphorus! However, they are very high in vitamin A. I don't know if that's a problematic level. For a veggie significantly lower in vitamin A than turnip greens, check out collards. Play around with the USDA link: Foods List
11. Total Bites is very low in protein with more than 3x the fat. It's extremely high in fiber. I like to use feeder food that contains about 16% protein and 3-5% fat. Click: Nature Zone Total Bites for Feeder Insects: Reptiles Feeder Insect Diet

1. I spray her moist hide down once a day. Right now this hide is a yogurt container, and there's sphagnum moss inside. I could do it more often, but I don't want to disturb her more than that?

2 + 3. Good to hear! I'm still fairly new at this, and am trying to figure out what's normal. I live in the Bay Area. As long as I don't see stuck shed, I'll just continue to keep providing her a moist hide and assume all is well.

4. Yes, it's elevated now - Scooter doesn't get free rent if my apartment burns down!

5. Hmm...interesting, maybe it's worth getting a timer. The closer it gets to winter, though, the lower temperatures are going to drop. Also, lately I notice she mostly hangs out on the cool side. Not
exclusively, albeit (she'll wander out, go into the warm hide for an hour, come out when she thinks it's food time). However right now the cool side is about 76 Fahrenheit. Warm side never gets hotter than about 92.

6. I'll add a digital thermometer to the list! Do you have a recommendation?

7. Good to know, and that sounds about right.

8. Noted! If I'm not using the RepCal calcium with D3, is it okay if I dust with just plain calcium instead?

9. Mmm...I try to give her a variety, but the truth is most days it's dubias, with butterworms or mealworms once a week. Regardless of how much variety, I'm assuming I should pick up a multivitamin?

10 + 11. Picked up some collard greens at the grocery store tonight Er...I apologize if this is a question that gets asked a lot, but if I feed the roaches collard greens, do I have to also give them some form of pre-packaged supplement? (I keep the roaches at room temperature, and I'm never positive that they're eating).

In terms of cutting back her food, would 3 insects/feeding be about right to start? Up until now it's been closer to 4-5. Also, although the mealworms are smaller, are they about equivalent in fat to dubias?

I really appreciate you looking over my questionnaire! I've read a lot of your advice on this forum, and it's been really helpful.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

You're most welcome.

1. Spraying the sphagnum moss 1x daily is good. Here's my leo's moist hide:



3. Noticed on herpmomx7's thread that you live in the Bay Area.
4. Keep Scooter's rent-free apartment safe!
5. I have my leo on a time. I wonder why Scooter hangs out so much on the cool side.
6. The yellow Zoo Med digital thermometer with probe ~$10.
8. I would just dust with D3 Rep-Cal 1x per week. The 2nd time per week I'd dust with a wee bit of plain (no D3) Zoo Med Reptivite. If you switch to the beardie food, you probably should cut back Reptivite dustings to 2x per month. I would not dust with something every feeding.
9. As far as I've seen, butterworms are as high in fat as waxworms.
10. Good on the collards!
11. I'd switch from Total Bites to Zoo Med's Natural Adult Bearded Dragon Food. It comes in 10 oz, 20 oz, and (50 lbs)! Crickets, dubia, and mealworms do well on it. Then offer a lid of chopped collards or pesticide-free dandelion flowers/greens off to the side. Keep the dry diet dry.
12. Mealworms have more fat than dubia. I have heard that uric acid accumulation is a problem when dubia are used as a staple. That's why I use crickets as a staple and add dubia once in a while.

I keep my dubia in a 10 gallon at room temps. I place an 8.5 inch dome clamp lamp on top with either a 25 or 40 watt incandescent bulb inside. Right now there is a 25 watt there. I still see dubia nymphs.

Here's a link to kholtme's self cleaning dubia set-up: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...dubia-roach-set.html?highlight=cleaning+dubia

13. I'd try 3 insects per feeding and see how it goes.

 

[muffin_song]

Just wanted to give an update. I've switched Scooter to 3 insects per feeding, 3 feedings/week. Two of those feedings are dusted with RepCal w/D3. Tomorrow my plan is to go to the pet store and pick up the Reptivite w/o D3 that Elizabeth suggested, and go down to only giving her the RepCal with D3 once a week. I took the Total Bites out of the dubia's cage and am now just feeding them collard greens.

Scooter is still coming in at 69 grams, but she's not gaining weight either. (You could probably make a whole thread devoted to how to get a leo to sit still on a scale!!!) Lately she's been getting 1 dubia and around 2 horn worms, with occasionally a mealworm substituted in.

Generally speaking Scooter is doing well, except she hasn't pooped for several days now and she's making her mom worried! Still happily eating, though, and no visible discoloration on her belly. I don't know if the horn worms (or something else) is making her constipated? If I don't see her poop by early next week, I'll take her to the vet. Her coloring suggests she's on the verge of shedding, in case that has any influence.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Just wanted to give an update. I've switched Scooter to 3 insects per feeding, 3 feedings/week. Two of those feedings are dusted with RepCal w/D3. Tomorrow my plan is to go to the pet store and pick up the Reptivite w/o D3 that Elizabeth suggested, and go down to only giving her the RepCal with D3 once a week. I took the Total Bites out of the dubia's cage and am now just feeding them collard greens.

Scooter is still coming in at 69 grams, but she's not gaining weight either. (You could probably make a whole thread devoted to how to get a leo to sit still on a scale!!!) Lately she's been getting 1 dubia and around 2 horn worms, with occasionally a mealworm substituted in.

Generally speaking Scooter is doing well, except she hasn't pooped for several days now and she's making her mom worried! Still happily eating, though, and no visible discoloration on her belly. I don't know if the horn worms (or something else) is making her constipated? If I don't see her poop by early next week, I'll take her to the vet. Her coloring suggests she's on the verge of shedding, in case that has any influence.

Rep-Cal's calcium with D3 contains a huge amount of D3. Even now (before switching to the beardie food) I'd just lightly dust 1x per week with that. For a comparison of D3 calcium products, scroll to post #24 following my basic Leo Caresheet.

Total Bites aren't harmful at all. I'd continue them, then alternate them with the beardie food till they are gone. The dubia just need a higher protein dry diet. How about getting some adult Zoo Med beardie food for the dubia? PetSmart carries it.

Collards are excellent.

Hornworms are very juicy. They have lots of moisture!

Partial hornworm analysis
Protein: 9%
Fat: 3.07%
Calcium: 46.4mg/100mg
Moisture: 85%

Maybe Scooter chose a new poop spot?

Could you put Scooter in a tall deli cup to facilitate weighing?

 

[Zux]

Just to add to what Elizabeth said because I have had recent experience of a similar situation with regards to poops with my Leo.

Her diet is highly varied with about 10 different kinds of insects offered across the period of a week or so. Ever since there was this much variation she poops more irregularly depending on the insects she has most recently consumed. She would poop every day or every two days 100% of the time while only eating meal-worms at her breeders and now it can be longer (sometimes up to three days before she goes). I'm guessing this is because some insects are harder for her to digest than others and thus take more time to pass through her system. I noticed this especially when I introduced her to a "new" insect for the first time.

Perhaps your Leo has had a similar experience?

- Shane

 

[muffin_song]

Thank you Elizabeth and Shane for your insights! As an update, I did get the adult beardie food today and will start feeding it to the dubias. I'm having trouble finding Reptivite without D3, and will likely order it online. I also picked up some calciworms to add to her diet variety (I think those are the same as phoenix worms?)

Elizabeth, is it good or bad that horn worms are so juicy?

Shane, it makes me relieved to hear that Scooter's erratic pooping may just be because of a new insect. Tonight she produced a urate, but half of it was mushier than normal and a little discolored on one side. (I apologize for the blurriness of the picture!) Anything I should be worried about here?



She did do her usual "I'm going to come out of my hide and see if you have food for me!" thing when I opened the cage to change her water tonight, so she seems fairly happy?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thank you Elizabeth and Shane for your insights! As an update, I did get the adult beardie food today and will start feeding it to the dubias. I'm having trouble finding Reptivite without D3, and will likely order it online. I also picked up some calciworms to add to her diet variety (I think those are the same as phoenix worms?)

You are welcome.

Good for you getting Zoo Med's adult beardie food! Fortunately I have a local garden and pet store that orders no D3 Reptivite for me.

Calciworms, reptiworms, and Phoenix worms are generically black soldier fly larvae.

Elizabeth, is it good or bad that horn worms are so juicy?

It's a good thing. Hornworms provide lots of moisture and good calcium.

Shane, it makes me relieved to hear that Scooter's erratic pooping may just be because of a new insect. Tonight she produced a urate, but half of it was mushier than normal and a little discolored on one side. (I apologize for the blurriness of the picture!) Anything I should be worried about here?

View attachment 36530

She did do her usual "I'm going to come out of my hide and see if you have food for me!" thing when I opened the cage to change her water tonight, so she seems fairly happy?

......

 

[Zux]

Hey Muffin_Song,

Its a good sign that her behavior seems normal as I have read impacted geckos can become lethargic quickly in that state.

I think you would still be well advised to take Scooter along to the vet if you haven't seen any fecal matter by the very beginning of next week. As for the urate it can be tough to tell with those if their color is normal as the accompanying liquids can discolor them once they have been passed and the same can be responsible for the consistency, to me it looks pretty normal (ideally they should be pure white if they don't get stained by anything else) but I am by no means an expert I'm afraid.

You're on the right track so just keep a good eye on her and we'll keep our fingers crossed too.

- Shane

 

[muffin_song]

Hey Muffin_Song,

Its a good sign that her behavior seems normal as I have read impacted geckos can become lethargic quickly in that state.

I think you would still be well advised to take Scooter along to the vet if you haven't seen any fecal matter by the very beginning of next week. As for the urate it can be tough to tell with those if their color is normal as the accompanying liquids can discolor them once they have been passed and the same can be responsible for the consistency, to me it looks pretty normal (ideally they should be pure white if they don't get stained by anything else) but I am by no means an expert I'm afraid.

You're on the right track so just keep a good eye on her and we'll keep our fingers crossed too.

- Shane

I would say she's been a little less active than usual, but not to the point where she won't come out of her hide. I'm going to try giving her a drop of oil and a bath tonight.

Thanks for the input!

 

[muffin_song]

One more question about hornworms, Elizabeth - can they ever cause impaction in leos when they get too big? I've been giving Scooter ones that are 1.5 - 2 inches, and I worry that's the cause of her not pooping. (Of course, I haven't ruled out that it's the supplements or something either)

Horn worms are expensive and I'm trying to give her the larger ones before they get any more gigantic, but I'll donate them to my friend's beardie if they're hurting Scooter once they get to a certain size!

Thanks for bearing with me in all of these questions!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

One more question about hornworms, Elizabeth - can they ever cause impaction in leos when they get too big? I've been giving Scooter ones that are 1.5 - 2 inches, and I worry that's the cause of her not pooping. (Of course, I haven't ruled out that it's the supplements or something either)

Horn worms are expensive and I'm trying to give her the larger ones before they get any more gigantic, but I'll donate them to my friend's beardie if they're hurting Scooter once they get to a certain size!

Thanks for bearing with me in all of these questions!

You're welcome. We are all newbies when it comes to getting a new gecko genus.

I don't think hornworms can cause impaction. If they are too big, maybe choking? I feed my leo Cha about 1.5 inch hornworms. She's about the same size as Scooter's 69 grams. Hornworms are soft bodied worms, so they are easy to digest. They are expensive, so set up a picnic cooler with solid reusable ice packs. That keeps them from growing. I've kept them alive for up to 3 weeks this way.

Have you seen these: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...eeding-issues-/68585-hornworm-guidelines.html?

 

[amsdadtodd]

I'm a huge fan of hornworms, I'm sure using them is what saved one of my leo's who had stopped eating and looked dehydrated. Quite opposite from constipating her, they may have caused her to poop to become very watery a few times.

Good luck with the calciworms, they are the same as phoenix worms, reptiworms, and black soldier fly larvae. Some leo's like them, others don't. None of mine ever ate them, but other folks on here have had great luck with them. I would recommend rinsing them in lukewarm water, that may help them be more palatable.
Todd

 

[muffin_song]

Aaaaand I found that she had pooped in her corner when I got home today. Thanks for making your mom worry, Scooter! :roll:

I may occasionally pop back here to ask questions as they come up - it sounds like it's easier to keep things on one thread, even if the topic is different. Thanks to everyone for all the advice and encouragement!