Goni photos please

djmoondancer

New member
I want to put together a web page with reference photos for all the different Goni species from baby to juvie to adult. So if you have some good pics please send them my way and if all goes well I might work on expanding to include other species. Don't worry I will keep all credits listed with the images :D
 

djmoondancer

New member
So how about we list them all and where they are from, which would actually be a big help to my project. I have a list going but no idea where most come from or even common names for them. but heres what I have been able to put together in the little time I have had to work on it...
- Goniurosaurus araneus (Chinese Tiger Gecko)
- Goniurosaurus bawanglingensis
- Goniurosaurus kuroiwae
- Goniurosaurus lichtenfelderi
- Goniurosaurus luii (Chinese Cave Gecko)
- Goniurosaurus orientalis
- Goniurosaurus splendens
- Goniurosaurus yamashinae
 

Brian

New member
Well I thought there were indications that luii was technically two species or at least 2 subspecies. I don't think anythings been published on it yet. The ones from Hainan (spelling?) are different from the mainland ines according to a paper I read.

I also thought the two subspecies of Goniurosaurus lichtenfelderi are now each species. So G. hainanensis should be on the list.
 

modoki

New member
Currently these 10 species have been described:

-Kuroiwae group
Goniurosaurus kuroiwae (Japan)
Goniurosaurus splendens (Japan)
Goniurosaurus orientalis (Japan)
Goniurosaurus yamashinae (Japan)
Goniurosaurus toyamai (Japan)

-Luii group
Goniurosaurus Luii (China)
Goniurosaurus araneus (Vietnam)
Goniurosaurus bawanglingensis (China/Hainan)

-Lichtenfelderi group
Goniurosaurus lichtenfelderi (Vietnam)
Goniurosaurus hainanensis (China/Hainan)

At the moment there are no subspecies described within the genus.
 

sune jensen

New member
Actually true lichtenfelderi (that is former lichtenfelderi lichtenfelderi) are pretty rare in captivity. Only one bloodline exists, originally being collected by a famous russian herpetologist. These are with some people in Europe and probably also USA.

Hainanensis (formerly lichtenfelderi hainanensis) used to be the rarer (and most expensive) of the 2, but recently quite a few have been imported. So now true lichtenfelderi is much more rare than hainanensis

I have seen hainanensis being sold as luii. They 2 are, however, clearly different in size, coloration and body proportions. I should know since I keep and breed both true lichtenfelderi, hainanensis and luii. The real problem is to distinguish true lichtenfelderi and hainanensis. I would say that unless your bloodline can positively be traced back to the origianal true lichtenfelderi bloodline you can safely assume that you have hainanensis. That is also a message to all the people out there assuming the have lichtenfelderi: You probably dont, unless you are able to trace your bloodline back to a reputable breeder who works with the true lichentenfelderi bloodline. This off course has little practical relevance, and it should niot spil the joy and privilege, of working with these animals, but it is best to know stuff like this if natural bloodlines are to be kept clean in captive breeding programs.

Finally to add furter complexity, Grismer destinguishes between 2 different forms of hainanensis - a highland form and a lowland form.

Try to post a pic.

Sune
 

Brian

New member
Where are you pulling the info on the high and lowland form? Just curious since I've never heard of that before. How would one tell them apart?

The one characteristic I have for telling lichtenfelderi and hainanensis apart is that The former usually has less then 52 eyelid fringe scales and the latter has more then 54 usually. Although it looks like it is possible to have an individual overlap with in the range of 55-56 scales in which case you can't tell.

I got that from Table 2 of L.L. Grismer et al. (2002). I'd love to hear if anyone has any other characters.
 

sune jensen

New member
Brian: Grimser 2002 (in Gekko vol 3 issue one) page 26, says that lowland hainanensis tend to have dull white clouded bands, whereas the bands on hainanensis from higher elevations are bright yellow.
Im personally not too sure about the validity of thsi characteristic as it might actually be related to age difference more than anything else.
 

Brian

New member
Thank You.

I also read today that hainanensis may also be present on the mainland. I think it's mentioned in Grismer's "Two New continential species article" in Journal of Herp.

Since you seem to be an expert on these can I ask if you have any good way to tell hainensis from lichtenfelderi on a living speciemen?The eye fringe scale thing is not really practical on a living animal.
 
you can use my pictures from this thread:
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1524

i was trying to look up the exact species on them, the adults were imported as hainensis but from pictures they look to be lichtenfelderi, ive been reluctant to get the adults before im 100% postive of the species. and the information on the internet isnt always reliable.

brian- did you notice the young adult/adult Goniurosaurus at EBV? its probably sexable and definitely wildcaught tho i didnt check last time i was there. I think its labled as either the highland or lowland hainan [sp?] island cave gecko. I knew they had one of each labled as those up there, but havent checked recently.
 

sune jensen

New member
Brian, I would know of no 100% sure way to keep adults apart. I guess in the end you can either kill off your gecko, count scales, and then be certain about what you did have :cry: . Or you can make sure to get CB from a trusted breeder, who knows what he has, because his gex come from a bloodline with known collection site.

Babies seem to have coloration difference, though:
Hainanensis babies have a more organge shade of yellow in the bands, whereas true lichtenfelideri babies have a more whitish shade of yellow. The baby on 'bleeding-sarcasm's picture is a hiananensis (I think).
 

sune jensen

New member
..forgot to mention that babies of both forms are just black and white right afte hathcing. Then they go through a stage with yellow bands, and then later again the get the adults volors. In other words they go through 3 stages colorwise.

Sune
 

modoki

New member
I agree with with Sune that it is really difficult to see the difference on live adult specimen, If you don't keep them both. Also Goniurosaurus hainanensis varies very much in coloration from it's locality and from it's age and size. What I have seen on my animals, is that they have different iris colorations and different sizes on the adults. Another,maybe not 100% difference, but on all my juvenils of Goniurosaurus hainanensis is, that the nuchal band starts directly at the back of the eye, which does not on Goniurosaurus lichtenfelderi babies.
I will forward a picture of both specimen as soon as I find out how to post pics on this forum. Goniurosaurus hainanensis has a more reddish iris and is way larger in size than Goniurosaurus lichtenfelderi. Their iris coloration is orange.

Thomas
 
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