Difference between Cyrtodactylus intermedius and C. pulchell

[Guest]

Hello,

can anybody tell me the difference between Cyrtodactylus intermedius and C. pulchellus?

Perhaps number of bents?

Good bye

Rob

 

[kenya_1977]

only thing that I know is more brilliant colors on the intermedius..?

 

[Afelinus]

I just got through looking at 40 different ones and am only more confused.The ones sold as Puchellus that I used to see in the late 80s early 90s were always black and grey,with thin yellow lines.When I see what is called Intermedius,they are more yellow and tan.Thats all I can see,and I do reemeber something said about labrial scales counts,but am not 100% sure.

 

[Afelinus]

I spoke with Leland last night regarding this subject and he mentioned that Puchellus do not have a fold or flap of skin that separates the dorsal and ventral surface along the ribcage.I do see that particular key as I have geckos that have it,and others dont.Adult animals are more easy to differentiate.

 

[WildEyeReptiles]

The interesting thing, is that adults with a raised "intermedial line" have offspring without this trait, that I assume is acquired at maturity. Also, the two very distinct forms that I have seen both have an intermedial line, albeit one is very pronounced, and the other more of a decorative raised color change. The latter is what we are seeing on the market right now, 5 very large body bands, purple/grey/tan with yellow or white stripes inbetween bands and around the heads.

I dont believe there is any way these are the same species...
http://www.gekkota.com/html/c__intermedius.html

Notice the line in both - but vastly different coloring. The lines also differ in that one seems to "roll down" while the other is merely "raised."

 

[Afelinus]

Leah,honestly after talking with Leland,I was just as confused when I went back and started looking at geckos again.Is there a reliable source of keys that we have for reference?

 

[Leland]

Wow, long time no post for me on here, but I feel it in neccessary to do so in this instent. I understand where you are coming from Leah, and i've also had animals of both color you provided above and I believe they are in fact, different species. However, here is a link (may be unreliable) that shows intermedius as well as pulchellus.
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~gambl007/geckopics.htm
*I am unsure how accurate this actually is, but it's another "guide" for us. Leland

 

[Afelinus]

OK,thoroughly boggled now. :roll: :roll: :shock: :shock:

 

[Afelinus]

Leland,on the basis of this discussion,I hope you dont hold me to be definately accurate in what I am sending you today.

 

[WildEyeReptiles]

I have no key of any kind on these two. Of course, all I really care about is that all of them that I have are the same (and they are) - calling it the right name is really just a technicality - but it does certainly bear some confusion. Like louisiadensis/irianjayaensis, quadrivirgatus/pubisulcus, elok/brevipalmatus, I guess when it all boils down to it, we have some Asian geckos :lol:

 

[Afelinus]

I will take a risky position on this,but at least those others you named have "apparent differences"but youre right,they are very similar.I can tell you,on this recent shipment.there are some obvious differences between pubisulcus,theyre somewhat smaller and more colorful.I have 2 female quads here and they never turn yellow at night like the Pubi's do.Classic linear pattern also.They are bigger too.It does drive me nuts though,alot of confusion.

 

[WildEyeReptiles]

I would love some pics of them. I had what I believe was a single quadrivirgatus a while back..

 

[Afelinus]

Now if Leland and Shane can post some pics of their new geckos,we''ll get an idea concerning this.

 

[WildEyeReptiles]

Well, I took these last night. Generally these are the most unpredictible of my cyrtos, so I handle them with extreme care and rarely - but here is my point regarding the intermedial lines (mind you, I am not arguing about this, its just my opinion that this is not enough to constitute a defining characteristic between two species)


I hope the photos come out full sized. Here you can see that the ridge is nothing more than a line of raised scales, while in the gekkota photos, there is a fleshy crease almost.

Next time I have all of them out to weight, I'll see what I can do for comparative photos of babies, juveniles, sub adults and adults. I've got quite a few of these to look at, all being the 5 banded type.

 

[Afelinus]

Those are butt ugly :wink:

 

[Kobe]

I also keeping this two sp,i think the difficult between this two geckos is the size
C.intermedius is much bigger than pulchellus

 

[Bowfinger]

I have heard the opposite, C. intermedius SVL to 8.5cm, total to 19cm and C. pulchellus SVL to 11.5cm, total to 26cm.

Also counting the male pores...

C.intermedius "there are eight or ten pores in a wide-angled series before the vent, followed by a group of enlarged preanal scales, and a series of six to ten enlarged femoral scales under the upper leg. There is a skin fold between the flank and the venter."

C.pulchellus "Males have two series of four pre-anal pores in a deep longitudinal groove, connected at right angles to a series of 15-20 femoral pres."

Yeah, Marcus sells butt ugly geckos, ha ha just kidding :wink:

 

[WildEyeReptiles]

Get to counting..

 

[Afelinus]

Well,whats the verdict?I am bringing more of these guys and gals in and would really like to know what I am importing.Whatever the case,the condition of them coming in has been great.About 10 years ago,they were skin and bones,and if you got 3 out of 5 to survive,you were doing great.I wasnt importing back then,but pretty much that was the norm from just about any importer.

 

[Bowfinger]

Marcus, I did notice the bad quality in the past and lower prices. You have or had a large amount to compare, it is hard to tell with just a few for myself. One thing I did read is that intermedius has a very northern range if any in Malaysia. Could you possibly have just a nice range of pulchellus to choose from?
As for the counting, I don't know what all that scientific lingo is all about, was hoping one of you college grads would take my findings and make sense of it all. If anything I could try to count them if all else fail on me :wink: