High end Leaf's

[phelsumatic]

I am curious what makes a leaftail ex (satanic) a high end leaftail.I have 2.4 they are old not producing anymore but they are still beautiful and they are more of a drab colored group but when they produced viable eggs the offspring were extremely variable.I see alot of adds in here and other places with satanic's that are 100 bucks more a piece and they are the same darn species.Just better color's which is kinda misleading considering the so called low end ones will produce the high end ones as well.Just a thought

 

[Reptiluvr]

Welcome to the gecko market. Just look how wild the market has become for Crested Geckos.

 

[phelsumatic]

Yeah seems like another way to exploit newcomer's to the hobby.

 

[thrower]

It's all about demand. If people didn't want them they wouldn't pay that much. If you show them something unique that they've never seen before, they may be willing to pay more to own it. It's all economics :roll:

 

[phelsumatic]

Your right it is all about economics not the true fun of the hobby anymore.
later :roll:

 

[Bowfinger]

Show me some million dollar gecko breeders (not other business money) This is a market some can pay for their business, barely and by pushing their best products at higher prices. It is your job to learn the market, all apart of the fun or the hobby will be no fun to you. I have spent money on something new and rare. later to see the prices drop on me or for that matter drop for others as I paid top dollar. It made me mad, but if you breed enough times and know how to push your babies, you make money, enough to pay for the hobby at least. I say learn the game and take your losses like a champ, so you can keep focus on winning the game. The market is up and down because you have so many variables. Breeders and dealers come and go, geckos die, some are over productive, laws change, market gets saturated and sometimes market looks saturated or the opposite, the gecko looks rare when common. Then you have the pop geckos whos combined SV length can rap the earth 100 times and still fetch a higher sale price than some of the rarest geckos in the trade.

You think it is right or not, there is a pattern just like any other market.

 

[phelsumatic]

As far as million dollar gecko breeders goes who care's.I wasn't implying that people are getting rich off these animal's I have been breeding phelsuma,mantella's and have dabbled in uro's since 91.I have seen alot of trend's come and go and hobbyist's for that matter.As far as you paying high dollars for something that later cost's next to nothing is the exact reason the hobby is the way it is cauz impulse buyer's with more money than sense are alway's looking for the next rare find.
Goodluck finding the holy grail?

 

[Bowfinger]

Ok smart guy, I was breeding Uroplatus back when you where dabbling in uro's, but who cares about that, lets not throw salt. Back then, well a little later on these, I was getting phantasticus for $30ea. and they did not have an export limit. Also they where not banned import to half their market, Europe. They are being wiped out in mass numbers over there so complain about the exploit if anything. I would rather see a naturally colorful phantasticus sold for $200 than a domesticated leopard or crested gecko. You are complaining about high prices when under pricing is the problem...not sure what that has to do with the holy grail?, I believe in evolution and anything else backed by facts including the perception of this gecko market.
Some pictures to lighten things up(I know, who cares)…

Bet you never seen these Uroplatus liniatus hydrosaurus…

 

[Bowfinger]

One other thing, why can Wal-Mart or Best Buy mark up some things 10 (1,000%) times while using little overhead to justify this and someone sells a phantasticus that requires more overhead and attention has complaints of their 100-200% mark up, a reasonable price. Just sit back and watch all these "gecko" or reptile retailers come and go, then explain to me why they get out of the business. Unlike you (sick of high prices), it is not because they are ripping anyone off, otherwise they would not leave the business if this was the case...the truth is they loose their buts even when selling a $200 phantasticus.
Just so you know, I am not ripping on you. It is the concept that dealers are ripping us off. True, there are hustlers out there no doubt, but I have seen many good dealers go out of business due to lack of income. These are people who supplied me and others with great selection of rare animals, and it was the bread and butter dealers who won over.

 

[phelsumatic]

I am complaining about high price's for a gecko that cost still to this day a fraction of the selling cost's and they arent cbb.That is my problem if you are breeding these with success and have true cbb satanic's the 200.00 plus price tag each is acceptable considering time and effort acclimating them to captive situation's.But alot of advertised satan's are wild caught very few importer's go through all the right precaution's hydration etc.I know of two that go through this process and there gecko's are worth every dam penny they ask.
Underpricing gimme a break not true.Problem is greed plain and simple.
Get them in get them out.
Nice pics by the way

Ripping on me no way I am a big boy

 

[Bowfinger]

I understand your point. I have a background that has seen both sides and still you are right in being upset. Its a messy debate and I can be torn at what side to take myself at times.

 

[phelsumatic]

I just cant stand to think of a day and time when phantasticus are the new cresti scary thought if ya ask me.

 

[Bowfinger]

They are an amazing gecko, lets hope exporters get their heads out their A's and start marketing local spacific instead of dumping all these different species labeled as "phantasticus". That is what will make this group more fun to work with, and slow the pop gecko syndrome from cultivating.