Canadian with Leopard egg bound problems.....

[greenknight exotics]

I have found this site through meeting others, and am looking for any advise on how to help my raptor female. I could care less about the eggs,...I'm only worried about her.
I've given her soaks in tepid baths that come up to her upper thighs, only for about 2 or so minutes, I've got her moist coco husk hide near the heat strip, so she's sitting in the mid to high 80's, and she's now dug a bit and is looking ready to lay,...the only problem is that she's been doing this for days! As you can see her tail is super thin, it will be her 3rd or 4th clutch(she's housed with another female), so I attributed it to her laying,....but she's obviously bound now.
Any obscure pointers out there?? Like I said, I don't care about the eggs,..I just really don't want her to die.
Thanks,
Dave

 

[phearamedusa]

a trip to the reptile/exotics vets office, is my best suggestion. Is this the same GreenKnight exotics that was at the Mississauga reptile expo last week?

 

[greenknight exotics]

a trip to the reptile/exotics vets office, is my best suggestion. Is this the same GreenKnight exotics that was at the Mississauga reptile expo last week?

Yes it is.
Did we meet?
I agree that she needs to go to the vet. I have early appointments tomorrow, but I hope that I can get her in by mid-late afternoon.
Dave

 

[Hilde]

If you've read any posts by Dr. Alan Slack, a vet who posts on several forums, you'll have read that almost all cases of egg binding in reptiles is due to hypocalcemia. You might want to check into how you're supplementing not only calcium, but other minerals and vitamins that affect the way her body can absorb and utilize the calcium.
Good luck at the vet tomorrow, keep up updated. We'll be crossing our fingers.

 

[phearamedusa]

I purchased a carrot tail cross from you or your business partner. She's doing very well, adjusting to home and everything. Handled the drive home to Windsor better then I did, she slept, I worried about everything...
Once she's settled enough to come out of hides long enough for me to take a picture I'll post it.
I hope everything goes well with the vet, even better would be if she laid them without any intervention. Fingers Crossed for her.

 

[greenknight exotics]

If you've read any posts by Dr. Alan Slack, a vet who posts on several forums, you'll have read that almost all cases of egg binding in reptiles is due to hypocalcemia. You might want to check into how you're supplementing not only calcium, but other minerals and vitamins that affect the way her body can absorb and utilize the calcium.
Good luck at the vet tomorrow, keep up updated. We'll be crossing our fingers.

I keep a shallow dish of ground calcium in the enclosures, I dust 2 of 3 feedings on a 1-1-1 ratio...calcium with vitamin D--Repcal multivitamin--nothing.
I gut load my crickets with carrots, potatoes, apples, and CGD(which they devour instantly!).
The only thing I can think of is that I buy calcium with vitamin D from Costco/Walmart, Kirkland brand etc,...I've spoken with other breeders and vets that have seen the ingredients and percentages and it's been given the green light,...could they be wrong?
Thanks,
Dave

 

[Hilde]

I'm not familiar with that brand, but it sounds like it's a human supplement? If so, that could at least be part of the problem. I know a lot of people grind up human Ca/D3 pills, but the amount of D3 is geared towards human needs. I've heard and read often enough that this can lead to an overdose in a smaller body like a gecko. Even though they do need D3, they don't need a whopping dose like they'd get from a human pill. Even with it being ground up and only dusted on food, there's still a lot more D3 than there'd be in a formulation made specifically for pet reptile sized bodies.
Are you using UVB lights? UVB along with D3 supplementation could lead a Ca/D3 imbalance (call it a 'reverse MBD', different path to the same end result).
Check out Allen Repashy's Vitamin D, Calcium and Phosphorous Article Vitamin D, Calcium and Phosphorous Article. - Gecko Resource Forums He's got a lot of info there about balancing vitamins and minerals (he does mention his Rhac diets often, but you can get a wealth of info in easy to understand terms that apply to leopards as well as Rhacs).

 

[greenknight exotics]

I'm not familiar with that brand, but it sounds like it's a human supplement? If so, that could at least be part of the problem. I know a lot of people grind up human Ca/D3 pills, but the amount of D3 is geared towards human needs. I've heard and read often enough that this can lead to an overdose in a smaller body like a gecko. Even though they do need D3, they don't need a whopping dose like they'd get from a human pill. Even with it being ground up and only dusted on food, there's still a lot more D3 than there'd be in a formulation made specifically for pet reptile sized bodies.
Are you using UVB lights? UVB along with D3 supplementation could lead a Ca/D3 imbalance (call it a 'reverse MBD', different path to the same end result).
Check out Allen Repashy's Vitamin D, Calcium and Phosphorous Article Vitamin D, Calcium and Phosphorous Article. - Gecko Resource Forums He's got a lot of info there about balancing vitamins and minerals (he does mention his Rhac diets often, but you can get a wealth of info in easy to understand terms that apply to leopards as well as Rhacs).

Thank you for the link!
After reading it though, and maybe I'm missing something, but I think that even though the calcium I use is intended for human consumption, it holds appropriate levels of vit. D.
Each tablet contains 600mg of calcium carbonate from oyster shell, and 200IU of vitamin D.
If I am wrong,...which is very possible, please let me know.
Thanks,
Dave

 

[Hilde]

Unless you've got some mighty big pills, they've got way more Vit D than the measures mentioned in the article. You have 2000 IU of Vit D per pill, yet the article talks about per KG measurments. An example:

So in a kilo of powder, we need 48,000 iu of Vitamin D.

That means 24 of your pills should weigh 1 KG to have the same amount of Vit D. Somehow, I doubt the pills are that big.
Even though dusting the food with crushed pills doesn't put a lot of powder into the diet at one meal, there's still a whopping amount of Vit D in each 'serving'. Since dietary Vit D is absorbed, it can lead to an overdose in just a few weeks. Vit D produced by UVB exposure is limited, the body doesn't make more than it needs, which explains why it's a safer route to go. Since UV exposure is tricky to achieve in captivity with the bulbs available, we resort to dietary supplementation. This means having to walk a tightrope of sorts, there's a very fine line between too much and not enough.
If I had to guess, I'd say the crushed human pills are too potent, giving your gecko(s) MBD from too much D3 (a.k.a. 'reverse MBD).

 

[phearamedusa]

were you able to get by the vet's office, and if so how'd things go?

 

[greenknight exotics]

Unless you've got some mighty big pills, they've got way more Vit D than the measures mentioned in the article. You have 2000 IU of Vit D per pill, yet the article talks about per KG measurments. An example:

That means 24 of your pills should weigh 1 KG to have the same amount of Vit D. Somehow, I doubt the pills are that big.

Sorry, the pills have 200 IU of vitamin D, not 2000.
At 200, they're at a pretty good ratio considering there's 600mg of calcium carbonate.
They were checked out by a herp vet here in Ontario by a friend of mine a couple of years ago. The vet said that the Walmart brand and pet store brands of calcium dust were virtually identical, saying that the walmart brand would probably be superior, as it would most likely contain a more "pure"(for the lack of a better word) form of calcium carbonate.
The entire colony, from hatchlings that have been raised, to breeders have been using this calcium for over a year now, and the recent egg-bound female is the first leopard gecko, or crested gecko, or bearded dragon that's displayed signs of anything other than perfect health.
Dave

 

[sheenaschlytter]

was the gecko that thin when you introduced a male to her she is just way to thin to have been breed in the first place but by the pics she either has one egg?? or maybe an impaction do you feed pinkie mice some get impacted from being feed to may pinkies

 

[greenknight exotics]

Looking better!

She's spent the last week moving about, acting normal, looking normal,...other than the thin tail.
She's in shed now, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that in the next 2 or 3 days she drops.
She was even aggressive tonight when I fed her, so I'm feeling positive,..I'll let you know the results, hopefully with pics of the eggs(fertile or not, as long as they're not in her)
Dave