Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
Just FYI, so that everyone is clear before it happens, we don't allow "bad seller" type posts here. That's what the Board of Inquiry is for.
Sadness comes to the Lizard Liason
- Thread starter lifeshighways
- Start date
Just FYI, so that everyone is clear before it happens, we don't allow "bad seller" type posts here. That's what the Board of Inquiry is for.
lifeshighways
New member
well I won't be naming him here on this board he has already lost his job at the pet store and he won't ever sell anyone in my lil reptile family another animal!!!!!
its not up to me to take revenge on him the life of that lil sad one is on his karma now....
its not up to me to take revenge on him the life of that lil sad one is on his karma now....
jabberwock486
New member
that is about all you can do. avoid unethical breeders and sellers.
sad reality is this is more common than we admit. we have a market around traits. any market like that creates this problem. honestly it is more ethical to gas animals that you can't sell than to neglect them or put them in those situations. if i breed for a trait i will produce more that don't have it than do unless i inbreed a lot. this is another part of that. once a breeder sells an animal he/she has no control over its care anymore. too many today get an animal on impulse and this is the destiny of a great many of those animals.
the culture around traits and greed are to blame. this is the price we pay for any specialty breed or morph. profits, not ethics, drive a market. never expect a market to be ethical, only the players. same thing happens with all other animals. how many "breeders" of dogs do i know who just pump out more units. they don't care who they sell to. only that it gets sold. same things with reptiles. even more so because there are little if any laws around this.
support the ethical players in the game. NEVER NEVER buy or "rescue" (IE buy an animal in bad condtion, or any animal for that matter, because you feel sorry for it) you only feed the monster.
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leoaddiction
New member
i agree completely
good to know...
phearamedusa
New member
Sorry to hear about the passing of the lil sad one... With any luck Karma will definitely get back at that guy for his treatment of other beings. Just imagine if he returns as a gecko and has an owner/breeder just like he is...talk about poetic justice.
lifeshighways
New member
yes, I am very familiar with feeding the monster - this guy told us the gecko was completely healthy - he was eating fine - the only thing wrong with it was it's tail was not getting any fatter - I asked, is it atleast of healthy size - oh yes, it's perfectly healthy the tail just wont get fat.... I would never "save" a leo from a breeder - or a pet store - I am quite against "feeding the monster"... but thank you for your advice - hopefully someone that does not already know the way this works will see your well written post and not "save" any sick geckos.
juiceredrum
New member
this is a tragedy i hope you come out of this with a healthy new pet and
head ache behind you i use flukers first aid when i need to battle malnutrition
you know a couple times in this thread i have read that you should contact ron tremper , now correct me if im wrong but i know he is the supplier of one of these main chains its either petco or petsmart , have you ever seen the gecko's at either of these places ??????? why would you contact a dude that just pushes whatever out the door to make a buck ? now i know u went to an independant person , i did not misunderstand sorry i got on another kick but this is kinda related thats a crime they are always skinny and weak looking horrible not worth the 20 bucks they charge for whatever in the tank filled with sand , :fight: anyway anyone that would sell such mistreated animal
should lose there job
independant breeders where you know were the stock comes from are the way to go !!!!!!!!!! they get more love and there more healthy
well done for doing as much as you did, he couldn't have been in better hands
lifeshighways
New member
Thank you everyone for your advice, kind and helpful words... I tried to do what I could for him... I cant save them all....none of us can... natural selection I suppose....
He's not hungry anymore... He's in no pain... He's resting peacefully... or perhaps he's already re-incarnated as a thorn in the asshat's side! *LOL*
He's not hungry anymore... He's in no pain... He's resting peacefully... or perhaps he's already re-incarnated as a thorn in the asshat's side! *LOL*
Kazska
New member
juiceredrum
New member
im sorry thats very sad to try to save an animal thats distend to pass you did all you could good show man
Why did you even buy this gecko for one. I know its hard to turn down an animal in need but you put your whole collection in danger buy getting this gecko. And if you paid for it then you fueled this horrible person that sold it to you. Paying him is like saying its alright to do this to your animals and then sell them cause I'm going to give you money so that you are encouraged to keep it up. Its like you paid him to abuse/neglect it. Really you should have not got this gecko.
Kazska
New member
If you'd have read the beginning of the thread you'd have seen she didn't know what the gecko looked like, it was bought "sight unseen". The guy told her it was a perfectly heathly RT albino.... false. 'lifeshighways' knows the dangers of buying sick or negected animals, she expessed her feelings on the matter in preveous threads so don't think for one minute she supports the ideas you expressed above. Just needed to set that straight, but I understand your concern.
xxxXXX
Then this should be a lesson to never buy anything with out photos first. I had a guy try to sell me some armadillos here recently with out any photos. Despite how good the offer sounded, the bells ringing loud and clear told me not to. If he cant provide photos then there is something he is hiding. Have you tried to get a refund for the gecko yet? I would report him on the BOI if I was you.
sune jensen
New member
'Then this should be a lesson to never buy anything with out photos first. '
Well as a breeder, I can say that the habbit of always asking for photos (that came around after the later years advances in digital photography) is an aboslute pest. I have tons of people asking for photos, which I then take, and then they never even return my mails....
Photos dont really proove anything. Pics can be misleading. they can be old, from when the animal was healthy, and may say nothing about the current condition of an animal. Besides, if if you are dealing with a really seriuos crook pics can be of a totally different animal anyway. So in other word if someone really wants to rob your money, asking for pics doesnt help you out.
My suggestion: Buy from someone reputable. Not from a person who never makes a mistake (we all do), but from someone who is known to be willing to correct any mistakes that might happen. Buy from people who are willing to give advice before and after a puchace.
But do not ask for pics unless you have a good reason. If you dont know what a species looks like, search the web (and you are probably not ready to keep that species yet anyway). If you want to check state of health pics arent a guarantee. But - I admit - If you are searching a specific pattern for a breeding project asking for pics might be relevant.
Just please remember that taking pics takes time, and time is valuable. At least dont ask for pics unless you have the money, and have made up your mind that you will buy the animals provided they look OK.
-Sune
Well as a breeder, I can say that the habbit of always asking for photos (that came around after the later years advances in digital photography) is an aboslute pest. I have tons of people asking for photos, which I then take, and then they never even return my mails....
Photos dont really proove anything. Pics can be misleading. they can be old, from when the animal was healthy, and may say nothing about the current condition of an animal. Besides, if if you are dealing with a really seriuos crook pics can be of a totally different animal anyway. So in other word if someone really wants to rob your money, asking for pics doesnt help you out.
My suggestion: Buy from someone reputable. Not from a person who never makes a mistake (we all do), but from someone who is known to be willing to correct any mistakes that might happen. Buy from people who are willing to give advice before and after a puchace.
But do not ask for pics unless you have a good reason. If you dont know what a species looks like, search the web (and you are probably not ready to keep that species yet anyway). If you want to check state of health pics arent a guarantee. But - I admit - If you are searching a specific pattern for a breeding project asking for pics might be relevant.
Just please remember that taking pics takes time, and time is valuable. At least dont ask for pics unless you have the money, and have made up your mind that you will buy the animals provided they look OK.
-Sune
Kazska
New member
I agree, photos can be misleading but it is necessary to know what you're buying. Like Sune said, its a good idea to buy from someone well known with a good reputation and experience, but you never know when these people are innocent breeders that haven't got round to taking photos yet or if their just trying to get rid of an unwanted and neglected pet..... its a cruel world!
xxxXXX
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lifeshighways
New member
For those of you that have not read the beginning and/or do not know me or of me... let me make it perfectly clear:
1 - my boyfriend was at his friends house and the guy told him all about this fantastic lil RT albino he had went to Tx to get he and Ron had spent all this time picking out this perfect lil gecko... the only thing wrong with it was that it had a skinny tail.. he was afraid it would be genetic therefore wouldnt breed it - since I am not a breeder per say I am really a pet owner that might have some sweet babies one day he said I would be the perfect owner for it... He said he would sell it to us for 20.00.... I had not seen it but my BF wanted me to have a really nice bloodline in case I ever did have any babies -He called and said "I've got this sweet lil guy coming for you next week".. I was so excited, I talked to the guy on the phone he assured me this lil guy was in PERFECT health.. eating like a little pig... THEN 2 weeks later he takes it to a our friends house and he, not being a gecko fan never even opened the container - just brought it to my home.... I opened the box, literally screamed and ran for the Panacur... He never went in the room with my other guys.. The guy told us he worked at a local REPUTABLE pet store - NOT A CHAIN but a mom/pop store... I trusted his word... He is now w/out a job... So, to assure anyone in question of my integrety or my ethics please note, I didnt feel like I was "saving" anything, I thought I was getting a HEALTHY leo.... I never intended to breed it for babies to sell as I am not a breeder - I am a pet owner!
2 - I am WELL AWARE of purchasing from reputable breeders, most of my leos are RESCUES from people that bought from petsmart, didnt realize what was involved in having leos, or had children that bite off the tails of their pets... I do not have one single leo that came directly from a breeder.. I do not buy them from pet stores and with 3 vets in my circle of friends I feel pretty confident when I say that I am a responsible leo owner, I do not support the import of these guys.. I believe there are MORE THAN ENOUGH leos in the USA right now that we pet owners and breeders could breed enough never to have another poor leo be shipped from Pakastan or any other country for that matter - I believe importing them is cruel and inhuman! Hell I wont even buy from Ron because I REFUSE to have one SHIPPED... He's coming to Daytona so I'm sending a friend to Daytona to pick one up for me.. I am 100% against shipping too.... I realize many of you ship/receive leos and I do not hold that against any of you.. MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE is to hand deliver/pick-up anything I purchase...
I've tried not to take any of the accusations, repremendations personally as you have no idea how many tears I have shed over the leos at our local pet stores- I REFUSE to shop at petsmart/petco simply because they fill their leo tanks with sickly animals... yes, I still have to have supplies, but I get all of them from online. You have no idea how many times people have emailed me and asked me why I am so passionate about the banning of importing of leos.... so I will continue to try and accept that you, like myself just feel very passionate about the cruelty of any animal, in this case specifically leos... and this was not a personal attack of my integrity...
bottom line:
I was told it was healthy, only had a skinny tail - I bought it sight unseen, being the trusting southern woman that I am, I immediately took him to a vet, who did everything within his power to save the little guy... it was too late, he's asleep now and no longer hungry, or suffering. The man has been black listed at any of the local petstores, he no longer works at the one he was working at when he sold it to me... I'm out 20.00 and another bucket of tears for the loss of something so sweet and precious! His last few hours were warm and cozy... nothing more needs to be said... it's over... lessons have been learned, karma has been initiated... it's done...
1 - my boyfriend was at his friends house and the guy told him all about this fantastic lil RT albino he had went to Tx to get he and Ron had spent all this time picking out this perfect lil gecko... the only thing wrong with it was that it had a skinny tail.. he was afraid it would be genetic therefore wouldnt breed it - since I am not a breeder per say I am really a pet owner that might have some sweet babies one day he said I would be the perfect owner for it... He said he would sell it to us for 20.00.... I had not seen it but my BF wanted me to have a really nice bloodline in case I ever did have any babies -He called and said "I've got this sweet lil guy coming for you next week".. I was so excited, I talked to the guy on the phone he assured me this lil guy was in PERFECT health.. eating like a little pig... THEN 2 weeks later he takes it to a our friends house and he, not being a gecko fan never even opened the container - just brought it to my home.... I opened the box, literally screamed and ran for the Panacur... He never went in the room with my other guys.. The guy told us he worked at a local REPUTABLE pet store - NOT A CHAIN but a mom/pop store... I trusted his word... He is now w/out a job... So, to assure anyone in question of my integrety or my ethics please note, I didnt feel like I was "saving" anything, I thought I was getting a HEALTHY leo.... I never intended to breed it for babies to sell as I am not a breeder - I am a pet owner!
2 - I am WELL AWARE of purchasing from reputable breeders, most of my leos are RESCUES from people that bought from petsmart, didnt realize what was involved in having leos, or had children that bite off the tails of their pets... I do not have one single leo that came directly from a breeder.. I do not buy them from pet stores and with 3 vets in my circle of friends I feel pretty confident when I say that I am a responsible leo owner, I do not support the import of these guys.. I believe there are MORE THAN ENOUGH leos in the USA right now that we pet owners and breeders could breed enough never to have another poor leo be shipped from Pakastan or any other country for that matter - I believe importing them is cruel and inhuman! Hell I wont even buy from Ron because I REFUSE to have one SHIPPED... He's coming to Daytona so I'm sending a friend to Daytona to pick one up for me.. I am 100% against shipping too.... I realize many of you ship/receive leos and I do not hold that against any of you.. MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE is to hand deliver/pick-up anything I purchase...
I've tried not to take any of the accusations, repremendations personally as you have no idea how many tears I have shed over the leos at our local pet stores- I REFUSE to shop at petsmart/petco simply because they fill their leo tanks with sickly animals... yes, I still have to have supplies, but I get all of them from online. You have no idea how many times people have emailed me and asked me why I am so passionate about the banning of importing of leos.... so I will continue to try and accept that you, like myself just feel very passionate about the cruelty of any animal, in this case specifically leos... and this was not a personal attack of my integrity...
bottom line:
I was told it was healthy, only had a skinny tail - I bought it sight unseen, being the trusting southern woman that I am, I immediately took him to a vet, who did everything within his power to save the little guy... it was too late, he's asleep now and no longer hungry, or suffering. The man has been black listed at any of the local petstores, he no longer works at the one he was working at when he sold it to me... I'm out 20.00 and another bucket of tears for the loss of something so sweet and precious! His last few hours were warm and cozy... nothing more needs to be said... it's over... lessons have been learned, karma has been initiated... it's done...
lifeshighways
New member
Thanks Sugar! You do know me well for such a short time!