Hybrid Naultinus x Hoplodactylus

[EMS]

Hello,
I want to show a photo of a hybrid of Naultinus and Hoplodactylus.
I could make the photos at a friend.
The photo shows one of two only known hybrids.
Some more photos you can find here:
dactylus.de - Naultinus

 

[tanala]

homestly that animal looks very nice. What species? How old is it?

 

[mario]

hybrid

they (two) where breed by jürgen pietschmann (+) some years ago.
the geckos are hybrids of hoplodactylus maculatus and naultinus grayii. they look good - nice to see a photo on the net!


regards

mario

 

[EMS]

That's all right. And they are 2 male.

 

[tanala]

thanks for the info, and fantastic shot!

 

[Luperosaurus]

Yes, it seems that this is Jurgen's animals. I've got from him the picture of newborn, but can't find now...

 

[sunny]

Hi Manfred
only incredible. I have never seen them before but they looks really raelly great.
Do you know if he could increase them?
Best Regards
Sebastian

 

[LarryLockard]

That's an amazing looking animal. At first glance it looks similar to the South Island species, kind of a conglomeration of N. rudis, stellatus & tuberculatus. Very interesting. Please feel free to show us more photos in the future.

 

[Thor Hakonsen]

Hi Manfred
only incredible. I have never seen them before but they looks really raelly great.
Do you know if he could increase them?
Best Regards
Sebastian

Won't they be infertile, as they are hybrids ?

 

[Geckos and Goannas]

I think the gecko looks good but I honistly disagree with it being a hybrid. I think it just screws up a already amazing animal and blood line.

 

[van_veen456]

Very beautifull!
I trust that they are in good hands and that this was an accidental hybrid?

 

[Geckos and Goannas]

Very beautifull!
I trust that they are in good hands and that this was an accidental hybrid?

I doubt it was accidental since it is captive right?

 

[danscantle]

I think the gecko looks good but I honistly disagree with it being a hybrid. I think it just screws up a already amazing animal and blood line.

I think it speaks volumes of about the process of speciation in these geckos. Far from destroying, I think this cross is remarkably illuminating. Considering they are viviparous, one would expect even the most subtle differences between species in gestation time, developmental progress, and/or maternal behavior during pregnancy (different basking temperatures, activity patterns, metabolic rates) to effectively eliminate any chance of a pregnancy going full term. Thus, even small differences could serve as complete post-mating isolation mechanisms. Meaning, any time two populations experienced random changes in these parameters they would be unable to interbreed.

Evidence for my interpretation comes from a study that revealed two populations of Hoplodactylus maculatus experienced asymmetric fitness loss when pregnant females were maintained in the climatic conditions of the foreign range. The cold tolerant form was able to bear young in warmer conditions more often than the warm form could in the cold. Not quite the same as hybridization, but it suggests divergent selection between environments can facilitate genetic divergence.

Apparently, this isn't (always) the case. Now I'm left to wonder what other types of processes and isolating mechanisms contributed to the diversification of New Zealand diplodactylids.

On a final note, I agree that creating hybrids can wreak havoc on the hobby. But to say the hybridization is unnatural and hybrids are an abomination is baseless. If you feel this way, I challenge you to think long and hard about what a species is. How should taxonomists delimitate them? How can taxonomists delimitate them? Where should the cutoff be drawn in the continuum of divergence? What about scenarios where allelic variation from another species can be adaptive? What of the astonishing variation many genetically-homogenous species show? How are species boundaries kept intact? What of the transient nature of species? Do they exist at all?

When I see these Frankengeckos, I see insight into the origin of some 1200 species, whose fate has become entwined with my own.

 

[Geckos and Goannas]

On a final note, I agree that creating hybrids can wreak havoc on the hobby. But to say the hybridization is unnatural and hybrids are an abomination is baseless. If you feel this way, I challenge you to think long and hard about what a species is.

When did I say it was a 'abomination'? I believe I said I just thought it screwed up a already amazing animal and blood line.

Although I do agree with you on some of what you said I believe you are accusing me of being one of those 'hybrid haters'. I dont hate hybrids. I just dont see why someone would want to change an already amazing animal (especially Naultinus) into something completly different.

Theyre almost another species you might say because its truely neither one or the other. maybe its true or possible that some of todays species came from a hybrid one way or another.

Now I know you may say that ''well you disagree with changing a animal into something comletely different but what about morphs''? Well morphs would be naturally occuring if the right indeviduals bred together would they not? I mean its only genetics. Right? So it could be natural. I just dont believe that hybrids are a common occurence at all in nature unless a species if forced to breed in most cases because they are runing out of mates in that particular area.

Basically I like the individual species as it is. im not bashing hybrids, Im just saying I wouldnt breed or keep them myself.

 

[lassethorsen]

The animals are for sale right now at terraristik.com
if anyone are interested in them.

Biete Echsen
Biete im Auftrag eines Freundes an:
2,0 Naultinus grayi x Hoplodactylus maculatus - Hybriden an.
Eventuell auch Tausch.

 

[danscantle]

I really hope these posts don't get taken out of proportion. My goal was to make these hybrid debates something more than a philosophical diatribe by injecting biology into the arguments.

Theyre almost another species you might say because its truely neither one or the other.

I disagree. While they are a mixture of the parental species, there is no indication that they are now genetically isolated from their parents and capable of interbreeding with each other. Most biologists would agree genetic isolation is the most defining characteristic of a species.

I just dont believe that hybrids are a common occurence at all in nature unless a species if forced to breed in most cases because they are runing out of mates in that particular area.

Actually, hybrids occur with surprising regularity in nature. There are volumes of papers on the subject of "hybrid zones", "hybrid incompatibilities", and introgression. Furthermore, to say that species interbreed because they recognize a shortage of mates is misleading. There are a variety of reasons why species interbreed, and they all indicate the same thing these hybrids show: reproductive isolation is not complete and not a conscious decision to hybridize.

Although I do agree with you on some of what you said I believe you are accusing me of being one of those 'hybrid haters'. I dont hate hybrids.

I wasn't singling you out. Sorry. It seemed like an opportune moment to present my thoughts on the subject. The point I was trying to drive home is hybrids reveal the complexity of species, and none of the hybrid arguments I have read so far have even considered that fundamental question of what makes a species a species. I was hoping to get people to start thinking seriously about why hybrids are so controversial.

 

[crestedtimm]

The bright side: unlike the colubrid hybrids that are so common today, I feel like there is little chance of these BEAUTIFUL animals being realease into circulation as anything other than what they are and with paperwork to prove it.

Timm

 

[Rob D'heu]

I agree , it is a very nice animal but a shame that some people mess with these rare geckos

 

[Dendro_Dave]

If its done for research purposes thats one thing but i seriously hope people arent doing this on purpose....its a beautiful animal in its own right, and i dont think it should be destroyed. It should stay out of the hobby though and not be be bred, and if it changes hands given to someone who will make sure it stays out. God do we really need another genetic cluster @#$% like with leos?

 

[Matt K]

I dislike hybrids, even if it does produce an attractive animal.

Hybrids are in my opinion very distasteful. However I can accept them if they are at least parented by animals from a same general landmass.