Hatched after 122 days!

R

reptivet

New member
:biggrin:
Hi everybody!
These are the first leachians dark morph I hatched 3dd ago from a couple I got in June, they are Mt. Koghis. I have 4 adults in total. But only the parents of these 2 cuties seem to be compatible, unfortunately.
They hatched after 122 days of incubation and they both weighted at birth 8 grams. Based on previous experiences being the female young and very skinny at the moment of deposition I think she may give bigger babies in future! She is now big and healthy!The little ones are now more peach coloured but these pics are of day 1. Enjoy!
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Debbie

Debbie

New member
Congrats! We can't wait till ours are big enough to breed!
We have 2 males and one female, so we hope one of the males will be compatible with her....
I'm curious about the parents!
What line of Koghis are they?
 
R

reptivet

New member
Justin said:
I agree they are great looking leachies. How big are the parents?
Click to expand...

HI all,

the father is a Michael Troeger line,the mother a Bodo friedel line.
These animals are not 4 years old yet, so it is good they have produced 3 eggs. The male is 31.5 cm, the female is 30 cm, the weight of the male is 233 g and the female 220 g . I had them for 4 months and are growing like weeds.
I have also a 2004 Troeger female and another male of unclear origin but the guy who gave it to me said it is a GT dark from Milan. I have not been successful to breed these 2 so far.

pics of the father:
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and of the mother:

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the pics are not very recent, since then the female has grown a lot, the colour is much darker and the tail has straighten up. When I got her she was half dead!
 
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Menhir

Menhir

New member
R

reptivet

New member
Dear Michael,

I know of all the rumors. I just do not think the Troeger and Friedel necessarily to represent a different local or a very different morphotype. I think that these geckos just breed when they have the chance and possibly in Mt. Koghis there is a type A dark patternless, with small snout scales and a lighter coloured type with smaller size and bigger snout scales. My 2 cents is that both Troeger line and Friedel line could be natural intergrades between these 2. Intergrades that in the case of the Troeger have been selective bred to look more black and patternless.
Regarding my project:

I will try to select breed the Mt.Koghis I know to have reduce pattern, long tail, big size. This is what I think is right to do, to give other people animals with a standard and being aware that without new wild blood there will be inbreeding problems in any case. I personally would buy a leachianus Mt. Koghis from you or Luc if I can see the parents and like them.
My female of the pic is pretty big, does go along well with the male, has limited
white , even though she has a little dorsal white. I consider her a good animal to breed. I do not know how the offspring will be once adult but I think they will be quite dark and big, considering that are eating a lot and hatched at 8 grams.
MIcrochipping: it is a nonsense in my opinion, even if I respect all experts different opinions. The only animals to be microchipped should be wild caught of certain locality. Their offspring should then be accompanied by a certificate and a form of genetic or phisical sure form of id until the age allows them to be microchipped too. Does it sound too complicated? If you have just to trust the breeder how can you microchip Troeger's animals ? He is no longer with us. But this is just an example. If the genetics is not involved and id not absolutely certain, then microchips have no value. And speaking now as vet: no microchip is guaranteed to work 50 years and they can still be passed from an animal to another. I just do not see any point in microchipping morphotipes, it is even more useless if they do not represent wild types.
 
Menhir

Menhir

New member
Hiho,

reptivet said:
I know of all the rumors. I just do not think the Troeger and Friedel necessarily to represent a different local or a very different morphotype.
Click to expand...
The thing that makes some people, including me, wonder about what these animals are is the fact that there are only dark or light animals with whitebars in the Troeger line, but in the Friedel line, you may get dark/light animals with white bars as well as dark/light animals with lots of pink dots and bars. Even funnier, I had 4 animals from two clutchs with two showing white, one showing pink and one even being close to a pink snowflake - same parents with one white and one pink animal per clutch.
I don't know what the animals are and since I saw pink in the Riviere Bleu, I am not that sure whether the people that think they are henkeliXGT crossings have a point anymore.
The thing is that I am still unsure whether its a good idea to cross the lines that have that pink vs. non-pink thing going on. But since they all come from maybe 2 WC animals, the founder principle could hit us quite hard in this theories.

Would you mind sharing some pics of your other adult animals? Where did you get the Friedel animals from?

My 2 cents is that both Troeger line and Friedel line could be natural intergrades between these 2. Intergrades that in the case of the Troeger have been selective bred to look more black and patternless.
Click to expand...
The thing with the Troeger animals could also be co-dominant as Phillippe already mentioned. I bought 5 animals from the line with the parents being both dark, but the male clearly showing the patternless back, while the female did not have that marker. Of the 5 offspring I bought, 3 had that patternless back while two do not have it. One of the non-patternless is even that light, you can hardly consider her a dark morph. So I think that there may be two things going on, one is a natural variation in color that you can also find in the Friedel line, and one is this patternless back thing that is not present in the Friedel line.

What I am currently thinking of is attacking the Snowflake thing based on the Friedel line that is, hopefully, pure GT.

Gretings
 
luc

luc

Member
I am 100 % certain that Friedel line's are pure GT's, GTxhenkeli mixes just don't weight 300 grams or even more and they don't grow as big as 37 cm as friedel line animals do. I also remember reading in bauer's herpetofauna of new caledonia that Gt's can have pinkish blotches. It also seems typical that some americans always try to doubt the purity of european gt's, very strange because I think there are more GT's brought into europe and unlike henkeli's( those are most mixed in europe since henkel considers all henkeli's the same) GT's were kept pure, I don't know of any european breeders that mix henkeli with GT's, something that seems to happen a lot in the us.
 
cindy

cindy

New member
Congrats with your hatchlings, they look great!
By the way; I find it quite funny that you own one off the biggest gecko species (currently living) as well as some off the smallest!:biggrin:
Greetings,

Cindy
 
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