Questions about food and food storage

[Stezan]

I'm wondering what kind of food for Tokays is easiest to keep in bulk because I am far from a pets store and don't have a good means of transportation. i have recently been keeping crickets by feeding them fruit, but it seems my Tokay has slowly been losing weight possibly because the crickets don't stay as meaty the longer I have them.

Also, are there any foods that are particularly good at "putting a few pounds" on my lizard.

Aside from the weight loss, my tokay is very active and alert, I've had her for 7 years (from LLLReptile) and she has never been a beefy lizard to begin with.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Well there are pre-made cricket foods available. I use one called Roach Coach here. And I use water crystals to keep the crickets hydrated. You can feed crickets apples, carrots, potatoes, pieces of fruit ... etc. There are also many suggestions on the net for making your own nourishing cricket food.

I doin't have any Tokays but do keep 4 other types of geckos. On occasion I feed my geckos silkworms (very high in calcium), butterworms (a little more fattening) and occasionally hornworms (very large and meaty). Also ... if Tokays will eat fruits you can blend several types of non-citrus fruit together (banana, strawberry, mango .... etc.) and add make little ice cubes from the mixture that you can thaw out when you need them. After they're thawed you can add any supplements such as calcium. I usually make a few cubes with some sugar-free yogourt blended in for calcium.

Good Luck and let us know what ends up working for you!!

Dyesub Dave. :biggrin:

 

[Stezan]

I'm heading to the best herp-specialized store in my area later today to pick up the food. I'm planning on doing more hand-feeding to keep better track of how often/much he eats. As for fruit, my tokay has never taken a liking to it.

How well can mealworms/superworms/etc be kept for extended periods of time and what would I feed them. I basically have a free supply of a large variety of organic foods at my college's dining hall so I should be able to satisfy most insect diets.

 

[Saille]

I can't trumpet the benefits of breeding your own roaches enough!
I have three colonies, three different species. Blaptica Dubias don't climb fly or smell, but they burrow. If you put them in a cup they can't get out of, it makes them easy prey.
Roaches have much better meat-t-shell ratios, and when I lived in Kansas City in an apt. building with roaches, our Tokay ran pest control. He got big, strong and fat on the roaches!
I've also heard that Superworms are a good bet for Tokays, but those gross me out for some reason, and they can eat through things and escape! :shock:

Check out this site for roach info, Blaptica Dubia Blaptica Dubia Blaptica Dubia Blaptica Dubia Blaptica Dubia Blaptica Dubia
Feeder Roaches from New York Worms:Roaches

Both good sites for info on keeping these guys. Really the only thing you'll have to get over is the "Yuk! ****roaches!" factor!
But once you do, you'll wonder why you ever dealt with crickets. You will save money in the long run, they don't smell, and and you get to compost your left overs! At least thats how it is for me! :biggrin:

A pricey but very good way to bulk up your Tikay is silkworms, if you can find them. I knwo they can be difficult to find and/or raise, but you can try Mulberry Farms - Reptile Food - Silkworm Supply and at least check out their site to learn more about them.
They have great calcium to Phos. ratios as well.
Hope this all helps?

 

[Stezan]

I know just how effective roaches are as a food source. For awhile, my brother had been feeding his fire-bellied toads and tarantula exclusively roaches that he caught all over his apartment. However, I can't see the administrative body of my dorm building, let alone my bug-phobic roommate, ever approving of roaches; as you mentioned, they aren't thought of very highly by people outside of the herp community. Maye in 2 years when I am in a Single-person dorm room would it be an option

As for silkworms, I don't believe I can get them anywhere locally. What are the nutritional differences between mealworms and superworms, I know for sure that I can get those.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

I have also only heard good things about raising roaches but I don't think my landlord would be happy if they were ever found roaming around the building!! ;-) However the roaches that you would raise apparently won't infest your home should they get loose. But like you said .... with their reputation most people wouldn't care about that!!

I've never tried superworms before but mealworms can be kept in the fridge and they will last for quite a long time. I've also read that they're fairly easy to breed. I'm sure that there is a lot of info on the net about raising mealworms. Butterworms also last for quite a while in the fridge with no feeding required.

I usually try to raise my own silkworms. All you need to do is get the eggs and chow from a supplier. You can keep the eggs in the fridge and take some out to hatch about once a week. Within a week the eggs will hatch at room temperature at which point you start feeding the chow. They will grow to 2-3 inches in about 3-4 weeks. The only problem with silkworms is that you have to keep their storage bin fairly clean and feed them every day so it's a bit time consuming but they are an EXCELLENT feeder for most herps!!

Crickets are a dirty, stinky, noisy insect but are the staple for most of my reptiles. However I quite often have another type of worm around for a treat every 2-4 days. I have an older male Veiled Chameleon that doesn't even eat crickets anymore. He barely even eats the worms I give him. I'm not sure how he's surviving but he doesn't move around that much any more either so I guess he doesn't need to eat much.

Here's a good nutritional value chart for feeder insects ... you will notice that silkworms have by far the most CALCIUM of all the feeders.

http://www.phish3r.com/feederinfo2.htm

Dyesub Dave. :biggrin:

 

[Gecko Ranch]

I'd raise either superworms and or mealworms. You can also feed Tokays the Repashy MRP Diets, some really like it, some kind of pick at it. I would get a small amount and experiment. If they do like it that can be their total food source, although I also feed mine insects as well. Repashy MRP Diet and insects = very robust gecko!

 

[cliff_f]

I'm wondering what kind of food for Tokays is easiest to keep in bulk because I am far from a pets store and don't have a good means of transportation. i have recently been keeping crickets by feeding them fruit, but it seems my Tokay has slowly been losing weight possibly because the crickets don't stay as meaty the longer I have them.

Also, are there any foods that are particularly good at "putting a few pounds" on my lizard.

Aside from the weight loss, my tokay is very active and alert, I've had her for 7 years (from LLLReptile) and she has never been a beefy lizard to begin with.

Fruit is not the best food to gutload crickets with. It is ok to leave fruit in there for them to get water but that is about it. There is alot of dry gutload foods out there that you can get in bulk for pretty cheap. But I would feed you crickets a little better diet and your gecko will benefit from it.

 

[Stezan]

Fruit is not the best food to gutload crickets with. It is ok to leave fruit in there for them to get water but that is about it. There is alot of dry gutload foods out there that you can get in bulk for pretty cheap. But I would feed you crickets a little better diet and your gecko will benefit from it.

Ok, so if fruit isn't a good option for crickets, are there any good grocery store foods for crickets until I'm able to get gutload food?

 

[aliceinwl]

I gutload my crickets on fish flakes or crushed high quality dog and cat food. For water I provide carrots and orange slices. This keeps my crickets and all my cricket eaters fat and happy.

-Alice

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Apparently nutrient rich leafy greens are supposed to be good as well ... spinach etc. Just don't leave them in to long as they spoil quickly. Whatever you feed your crickets is what your herps are getting too!! ;-)

Variety is the key I think. Pieces of apple work well and will last for a couple of days but as previously mentioned should not be the staple for your crickets. Most fruit and veggies will give moisture and vitamins/minerals but most won't give much if any protein. Fish flakes or dried dog or cat food will help with that.

Wait .... perhaps NOT the dog or cat food. While doing a search on the net I found this thread on Chameleon Forums ....

Dog food is pretty high in fat and low quality dog food uses quite a bit of corn as a filler. Corn has no nutritional value.

Here is a quote from Frye, FL. Reptile Diseases: An Atlas of Care and Treatment. 1991. TFH Publishing, Inc., Neptune City NJ.

"The meat by-products in these feeds are not pasteurized and can become rancid in the GI systems of the crickets. This poses no problem for the insect, but the chronic ingestion of these crix by the reptiles can have damaging results.

Also, the corn used in dry commercial dog/cat food is from a low-grade of grain that did not pass the UDSA's approval for human consumption. Most of this corn has been exposed to blight, (a fungus), and when the chow is allowed to become wet (even in an insect's gut), can produce an Aflatoxin, (usually Aspergillus flavus) which is a poisonous toxin that can can kill your reptile."


There's an interesting gutload recipe here .....Cricket Food Recipe.


Dyesub Dave. :biggrin:

 

[Stezan]

I really like the wet cricket food recipe Dave. I think I'll wip up a batch once the dining hall opens (10:30 is way too late to wait for breakfast on a Sunday).

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Does your dining hall serve Prickly Pear Cactus?? :rofl:

Of course I'm sure that you don't need all the ingredients on the list. If you have to omit a couple it would probaby work fine!! I like the idea of the egg yolk though .... very high in protein.

Dyesub Dave. :biggrin:

 

[Gecko Ranch]

I've been using Allen Repashy's Insect Gutload for all my insect feeders. It is very high quality and cheap, best of all. You could spend hours putting together all those ingredients he uses. I use fresh greens or carrots for moisture.