Sick Gecko

[sarahsunshine]

Please help me. My crested gecko, Starpower, is sick and I don't know what's wrong with her. I have two cresteds, they are sisters and I raised them both from eggs. They hatched 2 minutes apart and generally have the same habits. They are currently 2.5 years old. A few weeks ago Starpower's fingertips and toes started to twitch. She also started acting strangely. Normally her and Bibble (her sister) always sleep in these little tubes every day but she just started staying out on the plants and branches and even spent whole days laying on the substrate. She started staying up during the day and losing her balance. I took her to the vet and they couldn't find anything wrong with her and gave me some liquid calcium to make sure she was getting enough.

So I took her home and have been giving her the liquid calcium twice a day through a syringe but she is only getting worse. She is very weak and lethargic and her toe-twitching has become whole body twitching at times. She's been sitting with her mouth hanging open and even ate a mouthful of dirt.

A few days ago, while checking on her I noticed that she was a bit dehydrated because her skin would stay up when I pinched it a bit. I became extremely worried at this point and since then I have been keeping the humidity very high, misting every hour, and ensuring that she drinks. Also, because of her lethargy and weakness, she can't hunt crickets so I have been spoon-feeding her baby food just to get her to eat.

Last night she was walking on a stick and fell down into a water dish. I was getting very worried.

Today I was misting the terrarium and my hand came close to her and she had what looked like a seizure. Her whole body seized, her back legs stuck up very strangely and she made erratic twitching motions with her mouth hanging open and snapping shut rapidly and her head slamming side to side. When it finished she looked a little weaker than usual. I moved her to a separate terrarium from Bibble and placed paper towels on the bottom instead of substrate to keep her from eating it. I did not place any sticks in there because I don't want her falling down. Just low-lying false plants and a water dish and a small dish of baby food. I'm keeping the humidity high and after drinking a lot of water (thankfully) she curled up under a plant and went to sleep.

I'm seriously concerned about her. Does anyone know what might be wrong with her? Despite not eating any crickets recently, she looks fairly plump, like she has. I felt for eggs but I cannot feel any lodged inside.
What do I do?

 

[gbhil]

Contact someone from the nearest Herp society and get the name of the vet they recommend. Many 'standard' vets aren't very well versed in reptile disease and treatment.

I'm sure the vet you used did his best and had good intentions, but it sounds like something a specialist should see.

 

[sarahsunshine]

R.i.p.

Yesterday she dropped her tail.

I was worried about her being able to heal it while being sick so I took her to the vet. After some stiches, antibiotics and such and picking up some fresh UVB bulbs she was starting to look up last night and this morning.

Then today at 5:02pm... she died.
I'm a wreck.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi sarahsunshine ~

I am very sorry to hear that Starpower has passed on.

You did all the right things for her. I think she was suffering from Metabolic Bone Disease which begins with small twitches which do progress to full-blown seizures just as you have carefully described. Liquid calcium would be the treatment of choice...maybe just too late. You moved her to a separate cage with a paper towel substrate, kept the humidity high, had food and water dishes.

What type of baby food did you use? peach, banana, chicken for protein?

Not that it would have made things different in the end, but you might have given her a plastic tub hiding place, a toilet paper tube, or a section of bamboo. My crested likes to hang out in his bamboo tube during the day.

How is Bibble? Were the sisters similar in size? Are you dusting her crickets with a phosphorous-free calcium with vitamin D3? Rep-Cal is an excellent brand.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

PS

Does your vet treat exotics? Just wondering about the dosage level of the antibiotics.

 

[sarahsunshine]

Hi sarahsunshine ~
What type of baby food did you use? peach, banana, chicken for protein?

Not that it would have made things different in the end, but you might have given her a plastic tub hiding place, a toilet paper tube, or a section of bamboo. My crested likes to hang out in his bamboo tube during the day.

How is Bibble? Were the sisters similar in size? Are you dusting her crickets with a phosphorous-free calcium with vitamin D3? Rep-Cal is an excellent brand.

I was feeding her peach baby food supplemented with calcium and vitamin D3.
There was a paper towel tube in the terrarium as this is what the pair always sleep in during the day (there were two paper towel tubes suspended from a fake bamboo piece in the original terrarium). There was also a vine and a hiding rock and a hiding log. There was plenty of stuff in there, just nothing high up for her to fall from.
Bibble seems fine. They were pretty much the same size (50g) except Starpower was getting a little chubby just before she died and weighed in at 56g at the vet the day before she died despite not eating much. I dust the crickets with calcium and D3 (currently Zoo-med brand, I used to have Rep-cal but haven't been able to get out to the nearest place to get it which is out of town) .

 

[sarahsunshine]

Does your vet treat exotics? Just wondering about the dosage level of the antibiotics.

The vet I took her to specializes in exotics. I found him through the yellow pages but was later recommended to him by local pet stores as well.

 

[sarahsunshine]

Hi sarahsunshine ~
You did all the right things for her. I think she was suffering from Metabolic Bone Disease which begins with small twitches which do progress to full-blown seizures just as you have carefully described. Liquid calcium would be the treatment of choice...maybe just too late.

I took her to the vet straight away when we first noticed her fingers twitching. I was given the calcium gluconate but she still got much worse by the next vet visit a month later. At the next visit the vet told me that she didn't appear to be absorbing the calcium due to an apparent D3 deficiency. She was being supplemented with it but for some reason was not getting enough of it. So he recommended getting some UVB bulbs over her to increase her D3 levels. I guess I just didn't get to that fast enough.

 

[Salzy]

That's horrible to hear about your gecko. How sad...especially after 2.5 years. Hopefully Bibble stays healthy for you.

Are you feeding any type of Crested Gecko Diet? Or are you just feeding the supplemented baby food? I'd suggest trying to get your other girl on some type of CGD diet and forget the baby food altogether. Baby food is mostly sugars, and even with calcium and D3 supplementation, it probably wasn't enough to prevent a calcium crash. I'd even suggest getting Bibble X-rayed to see how her bone structure is. Chances are, if Starpower had these issues, then Bibble could with the same diet.

Also, I haven't ever found an conclusive evidence that UVB is beneficial to crested geckos. There has been a lot of debate about that, and most keepers and breeders of them only use lighting to simulate day/night cycles and not for D3.

 

[cadie]

im sorry sarah its tough when you lose a pet, try to stay strong

my question is did you ever give her any mineral supplement in her bf along with her calcium and D3vitamin?
eating dirt is a sign that an animal is not getting enough minerals, when the body doesnt have the minerals it needs to function, death may occur...

either way, im so sorry for your loss. we are all here for you

 

[sarahsunshine]

Are you feeding any type of Crested Gecko Diet? Or are you just feeding the supplemented baby food? I'd suggest trying to get your other girl on some type of CGD diet and forget the baby food altogether. Baby food is mostly sugars, and even with calcium and D3 supplementation, it probably wasn't enough to prevent a calcium crash. I'd even suggest getting Bibble X-rayed to see how her bone structure is. Chances are, if Starpower had these issues, then Bibble could with the same diet.

They were not on any sort of CGD. I tried it when they were young and I just couldn't get them to eat it at all. Looking back, I guess I could have tried harder. It was hard enough just to get them to eat baby food. Now that Bibble is willing to eat a bit of baby food I am planning to go out of town to get some CGD (Can't seem to find it around here and the stuff I got before has long since expired and been disposed of) and start switching her over to that instead. I've been checking Bibble's calcium sacks and they seem to be much better than Starpower's were, but after what happened with Starpower I don't want to take any chances. I'm doing everything I can think of to make sure she doesn't fall victim to the same fate.

Also, I haven't ever found an conclusive evidence that UVB is beneficial to crested geckos. There has been a lot of debate about that, and most keepers and breeders of them only use lighting to simulate day/night cycles and not for D3.

I was thinking this as well, which is why I didn't have any UVB lights on them to begin with, but I was willing to try anything to help Starpower. I've got the light over Bibble's terrarium right now and I guess it couldn't hurt to have it on during the day.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi ~

You really did everything possible to ensure Starpower held on as long as she could. Great job researching! How are you doing?

By the way, is your calcium supplement with D3 phosphorous-free?

Hope Bibble thrives!

Thumbs up for doing all you could, Sarah :cheer:

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Phosphorous-free calcium vs calcium with phosphorous

Hi All ~

This was e-mailed to me from Jenn of the Pacific Northwest Herpetological Society:

Phosphorus is necessary to herps as a component of bones, but too much
phosphorus impairs calcium absorption. Here is a paragraph from Melissa
Kaplan's page on Melissa Kaplan's Herp and Green Iguana Information Collection about calcium and MBD:

"Generally, equal amounts of soluble calcium and phosphorus ions are
required for balance; ideally, the ratio of calcium to phosphorus should
be 2:1. Too much calcium results in a phosphorus deficiency and impaired
metabolic function. Too much phosphorus in the diet forms insoluble
calcium phosphate which renders the calcium unusable; as the body
continues to absorb the phosphorus, hypocalcemia—metabolic bone
disease—results."

A lot of veggies contain phosphorus so you have to feed a carefully
balanced diet to iguanas and other herbivores. Additionally, most feeder
insects have a poor Cah ratio, so you dust with Ca only to increase
that side of the ratio. Here is a nutrition chart I found online that
shows the Ca and Ph toward the right side:

http://www.house-of-reptiles.com/feederinvertebrates.pdf

Hope this helps!

Jenn

 

[xtharsa]

I think I may be having the same problem. my Boyfriend noticed one of our females is twitching.the temps are 70 at night and 80 during day we give her and other babyfood with gecko diet mixed in. She has recently been getting a little thin despite dusting crickets and babyfood mix. I see her eating but she still is skinny. We are starting her on an emergency supplement just in case. should I seperate her from rest? I do have uvb and uva bulbs as well as a constant water sourse. any Ideas

 

[Empiu]

Hello guys!

I had the same problem with one of my crested females. Her fingers started to twitch and she couldn't keep balance at branches. All simptoms disaapeared after giving her a few extra doses of liquid vitamins and microelements which I got from my vet. Female gets calcium with D3 regullary, and after noticed that simptoms no extra doses were given to her. What is more she hadn't any MBD sympthoms, no zig-zag tail, no soft jaw, her calcium bags were full. BTW I use no CGD but live insects and babyfood, sometimes fresh mixed fruits. I didn't notice twitching since then.

 

[xtharsa]

could I just request these liquid supplements from a vet or do I need appointment for lizard...

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Calcium glubionate---liquid calcium

Hi ~

In the USA one can buy pint-sized bottles of calcium glubionate from pharmacies. No prescription is required. It is a human-grade supplement and may have to be special ordered.

The powdered supplement I like is the Rep Cal brand of Ultrafine Phosphorous-free Calcium with D3.

could I just request these liquid supplements from a vet or do I need appointment for lizard...

 

[Empiu]

could I just request these liquid supplements from a vet or do I need appointment for lizard...

I think you can get it free from vet. It is yellowish, smelling sweet, watery liquid. Cresties don't like it but two-three drops at nose will be easly licked, and such dose once for 2-3 weeks is enough. It doesn't contain calcium nor phosphore, so besides those vitamins calcium supplementation should be provided. Remember to give suppliments during or after feeding (with insects) because some witamins and micoelements don't dissolve in water, and need some fat.

 

[sarahsunshine]

Calcium

I was given calcium gluconate from my vet. It was pink and was strawberry flavoured so the geckos actually liked it and easily lapped it up.

 

[Empiu]

Forgot to tell ya that if can't get liquid vitamins just use common powdered for reps. You can also can try to mix up fresh fruits, insects and vitamins- crested like such coctail