The BIG female tokay

ReptileMan27

New member
Got some more pics of the big female tokay, only got that 1 pic of here when I first got them but now she is out so got more pics of here :D

She is HUGE

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I also added more stuff to there set-up, ran out of plants and stuff when setting up the cage so had to get some more.

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Ingo

New member
A large tokay with a broad head. Looks very male to me. Do you have a closeup of the anal region.

Why do you cramp the poor animal in a tank less tall than twice tha lenght of the gecko?
Tokays are arboreal and want to be able to move vertically .
This tank is not suited to keep tokays in-unless you flip it by 90° -than its still small.

Ingo
 

thehotchik1000

New member
I second that! Your female looks very male. Tokays can be tricky to sex if you dont knoiw what to look for. Post some pics and let us give you a definate. My minimum tank for mine is the exoterra 18x18x24. I feel like those give even the biggest boys some good climbing room.
 

ReptileMan27

New member
A large tokay with a broad head. Looks very male to me. Do you have a closeup of the anal region.

Why do you cramp the poor animal in a tank less tall than twice tha lenght of the gecko?
Tokays are arboreal and want to be able to move vertically .
This tank is not suited to keep tokays in-unless you flip it by 90° -than its still small.

Ingo
It has been proven many times that tokays DONT need huge cage to thrive. The cage is fine, would like to go bigger at some point but fine for now. Not my first tokay, been keeping them for years. I originally thought it was male but after sexing it its defently female.
 

Ingo

New member
Yes, it has been proven that tokays can survive and breed in even the most inappropriate sized cages -like hens can in egg production factories.

But that does not abolish the fact that in the wikd they are active runners which roam around a lot. Have you ever kept them in larger tanks?
I have and you will see a difference. They make a lot of use of space-if provided and they are much more active than in small tanks.
Tokays are cheap and people do not want to spend money and space for a large tank for these lizards.
This is the only reason for keeping them in small tanks-apart from the fact that they survive it well.

But to me it is far from how it should be.

How can you believe that a setup for an arboreal animal, which spends its life climbing can be big enough if it is less tall than 2-3 x the size of the animal?

Last words. Here, I see too many people favouring tiny tanks for tokays and of course, these always shout me down.

However, if I have raised only a slight doubt deep within your mind, I am already happy.

But so far:poor tokays


Ingo
 
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Chris3004

New member
I agree and think this is the main reason why G. gecko is, unfortunately, often described as shy and aggressive. It's neither their nature, nor their choice. They are just kept in tanks where they can't put enough distance between themselves and the keeper.

For comparison, I keep mine in a tank 100x80x120cm (approx. 39x31x47) and they are really calm.

I understand a tank can't be compared with nature, but this one looks pretty small.

Regards,
Chris
 

ReptileMan27

New member
Yes, it has been proven that tokays can survive and breed in even the most inappropriate sized cages -like hens can in egg production factories.

But that does not abolish the fact that in the wikd they are active runners which roam around a lot. Have you ever kept them in larger tanks?
I have and you will see a difference. They make a lot of use of space-if provided and they are much more active than in small tanks.
Tokays are cheap and people do not want to spend money and space for a large tank for these lizards.
This is the only reason for keeping them in small tanks-apart from the fact that they survive it well.

But to me it is far from how it should be.

How can you believe that a setup for an arboreal animal, which spends its life climbing can be big enough if it is less tall than 2-3 x the size of the animal?

Last words. Here, I see too many people favouring tiny tanks for tokays and of course, these always shout me down.

However, if I have raised only a slight doubt deep within your mind, I am already happy.

But so far:poor tokays


Ingo
Well your welcome to your own opinion but personally dont agree with it. I have kept tokays for years in various size cages, some bigger and some smaller. IME tokays find one of a couple places that they seem to prefer and thats where they spend 98% of there time. Tokays are NOT as active as you seem to think for some reason. We all have are own experiences and opinions but dont come here acting like a know it all and tell me im not caring for my tokays properly.

As far as putting the tank standing up right I was originally gonna do that but couldnt figure out the best way to heat it because if you put the light on the glass it gets too hot. If I can figure out a way to like get the light to stay on screen cover sideways then would be good to go, any suggestions for that would be great.
 

holocaustto

New member
What I did to flip mine:
I "glued" (sorry If I don't find the right words, I guess you'll understand anyway) a piece of glass to the top (new side) with a couple of hinge, leaving an area of 15cm aprox free. That i covered it with a "net" (same as before about the word xD), so the Gecko wont scape. Now from the outside a put the heat lamp, near the net. Close enough to give warm and far enough so it doesn't burn.
I hope you get the idea, if not, you can always ask and I'll do my best explaining again :lol:
If you want I can make some pics of it.

Good luck with that!:biggrin:
 

ReptileMan27

New member
What I did to flip mine:
I "glued" (sorry If I don't find the right words, I guess you'll understand anyway) a piece of glass to the top (new side) with a couple of hinge, leaving an area of 15cm aprox free. That i covered it with a "net" (same as before about the word xD), so the Gecko wont scape. Now from the outside a put the heat lamp, near the net. Close enough to give warm and far enough so it doesn't burn.
I hope you get the idea, if not, you can always ask and I'll do my best explaining again :lol:
If you want I can make some pics of it.

Good luck with that!:biggrin:
Okay thanks:)
 

BlakeDeffenbaugh

New member
Ingo,

You know I agree with you 100% on the cage thing. And agree that because of their price they are kept in small cages. When I first started I had one in a 15 gal (I know I know . .), Then moved them into a 29gal, and have been progressively going bigger. Still shy and didnt move much. I put them in a 75gal turned vertical and they are so much more active. I see them jumping around at night and even during the day. They werent out much in smaller cages but now they are. I'm buying a house soon and plan on making a cage like those 300gal Phelsuma cages you have.

But I can still see the other side where some people dont have the room and so on. The bigger the cage for these guys the better, but some times it isnt convenient to do so.

Just a issue everyone just has to agree to disagree I guess. But it is true the bigger cage you can give them the more you see them move.
 

Ingo

New member
IME tokays find one of a couple places that they seem to prefer and thats where they spend 98% of there time. Tokays are NOT as active as you seem to think for some reason. We all have are own experiences and opinions but dont come here acting like a know it all and tell me im not caring for my tokays properly.

Sorry, I do not want to quarrel, but I disagree. You are quoting personal experiences. Well, I have kept and bred tokays since about 30 years and I have kept them in everything from 40 to 1100g, giving me the right to say, I have seen the differences.
And yes: They have a preferred resting place, where they spend their inactive time and yes, in (too) small enclosures they do absolutely behave like you describe.
But in large ones, they spend many hours each night roaming around-like they do in the wild, if you have ever seen them there. This personal observation stands behing your "some reason".
Of course they are not mammals and thus activity is of course reptile like, meaning a mixture of inactive and active phases. But they clearly make a lot of use of even the largest cage.
Also, I do not say, 500 or more g are a must - just for practival reasons I do not stick to that.
65 or better 100g are a reasonable compromise, no doubt. But the cage has to be at least 4 ft tall. I stick to that.
Poor tokay which has to spend decades in a cage, where he never can run a distance longer than 2-3 x ist own size.
So sad that they are hardy enough to survive in even the most inappropriately sized enclosures. A chameleon of similar size but of a much less active species than a tokay would die soon in such a small tank. Tokays stay healthy and strong-but in herpetoculture they do not benefit from their disposition.

Again: No doubt they are arboreal. Arboreal means, they are climbers and avoid to stay close to the floor. In a tank less tall than twice their lenght, they are forced to stay close to the floor and can never run verticvally. That is a fact and definitely is far from being close to their needs - if you want to hear it or not.
Sadly, people tend to ignore or even shout down things, opinions or facts which do not fit their husbandry conditions rather than trying to improve the latter.
A -way too - familiar observation.
To me that is very sad and I keep saying my opinion on such philosophy. You may beleive it or not: I am not alone. Rather my opinion lies within the main stream philosophy on herping in my country.
This is an open forum and I see no reason not to post my opinion, if you like it or not.
Especially if it is based on long standing expereinces (you might be interested in knowing, that I am writing a book on husbandry of Tokays and related species. And I do that because I was asked for. For time restraints, I am terribly slow, but it still will appear ). During my studies of biology ( I am hiolding a phD), I spend a lot of my extra time on herpetology and herp ethology and I always try to make use of the knowledge aquired when it comes to setting up my tanks.
Please think twice about what makes you so upset, reading my posts. Are you really convinced, your setup is recommendable for tokays.

I do not want to blame anyone -sometimes you may get the impression, because some setups really make me upset, but finally my intention is to improve herpcare- , but no one stops me from raising fingers, I f I feel the need.

Ingo
 

ReptileMan27

New member
Sorry, I do not want to quarrel, but I disagree. You are quoting personal experiences. Well, I have kept and bred tokays since about 30 years and I have kept them in everything from 40 to 1100g, giving me the right to say, I have seen the differences.
And yes: They have a preferred resting place, where they spend their inactive time and yes, in (too) small enclosures they do absolutely behave like you describe.
But in large ones, they spend many hours each night roaming around-like they do in the wild, if you have ever seen them there. This personal observation stands behing your "some reason".
Of course they are not mammals and thus activity is of course reptile like, meaning a mixture of inactive and active phases. But they clearly make a lot of use of even the largest cage.
Also, I do not say, 500 or more g are a must - just for practival reasons I do not stick to that.
65 or better 100g are a reasonable compromise, no doubt. But the cage has to be at least 4 ft tall. I stick to that.
Poor tokay which has to spend decades in a cage, where he never can run a distance longer than 2-3 x ist own size.
So sad that they are hardy enough to survive in even the most inappropriately sized enclosures. A chameleon of similar size but of a much less active species than a tokay would die soon in such a small tank. Tokays stay healthy and strong-but in herpetoculture they do not benefit from their disposition.

Again: No doubt they are arboreal. Arboreal means, they are climbers and avoid to stay close to the floor. In a tank less tall than twice their lenght, they are forced to stay close to the floor and can never run verticvally. That is a fact and definitely is far from being close to their needs - if you want to hear it or not.
Sadly, people tend to ignore or even shout down things, opinions or facts which do not fit their husbandry conditions rather than trying to improve the latter.
A -way too - familiar observation.
To me that is very sad and I keep saying my opinion on such philosophy. You may beleive it or not: I am not alone. Rather my opinion lies within the main stream philosophy on herping in my country.
This is an open forum and I see no reason not to post my opinion, if you like it or not.
Especially if it is based on long standing expereinces (you might be interested in knowing, that I am writing a book on husbandry of Tokays and related species. And I do that because I was asked for. For time restraints, I am terribly slow, but it still will appear ). During my studies of biology ( I am hiolding a phD), I spend a lot of my extra time on herpetology and herp ethology and I always try to make use of the knowledge aquired when it comes to setting up my tanks.
Please think twice about what makes you so upset, reading my posts. Are you really convinced, your setup is recommendable for tokays.

I do not want to blame anyone -sometimes you may get the impression, because some setups really make me upset, but finally my intention is to improve herpcare- , but no one stops me from raising fingers, I f I feel the need.

Ingo
Well thats fair enough, dont care to argue about it either. We all do things differently and have different opinions. I am always open to suggestions. I have been considering going bigger for awhile now because I have always wanted a bigger nicer set-up but try not to jump into anything intill I know exactly what I am gonna do and the best way to do it.
 

Scott F

New member
Ingo, I agree with you 100%. I cannot figure out why people think it is ok to cram large arboreal geckos into the smallest of horizontal enclosures.
 
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