Dwarf gecko?

[Allee Toler]

So why do you think GiGi's so small? She's always had healthy diet, she just stopped growing at 31.8g. The vet said she's just naturally tiny, her bone structure is tiny and always has been. She was not even 2 full inches long when we brought her home, so she was an itty bitty 2g hatchling, so you think she's a dwarf? Lol. Can leopard geckos be a dwarf?

She proportional, minus the short tail and hands. She has weight on her. She looks fat when you look at her.

I was going to breed her, did, then she laid these horribly smelly black eggs. She has yet to be gravid again and it's been about two months. So she's done I'm sure. I don't ever plan on breeding her again. She clearly did not like being pregnant, with the waddling, grouchiness, constant potty breaks, she looked miserable.

So am I going to have a little girl forever? Anyone ever seen a 100% healthy gecko no bigger than 7 inches long? We're at the vet about every month for a routine FLD check up.

This is her health record (off the vet records I keep):
"born" May 18th. at 2.7g just shy of 2".
Grew pretty fast.
Got Salmonella late November 08, continued to be treated for it until May 09. She weighed 19.6g when we first brought her in at 5 1/2 months old.
Took her in for her "final" salmonella screening, and she was at 29.8g.

As of the last month and a half, she's fluctuating between 29g-31g. 33g when she eats a pinkie. Lol.

I don't think anything in her development could of delayed her growth. She ate regularly until she got an eye infection with salmonella.

Her food was dusted, calcium, calcium+d3, multi-vite, all in rotation at every other feeding. Crickets were usually calcium based, and worms were multi-vite.

The vet keeps telling me she's fine. Her health is 100%. That she's just a tiny girl. But I know that 30g is usually about a 5 month old's weight. She was half that at 5 months.

So. My question is. Do ALL species have different types of dwarfism?

I love GiGi the way she is. She'll always be my lil'bit. I never noticed how small she was until my RAPTOR, Lu, started to catch up to her. At 7 1/2 weeks old, he's almost 20g. Lol. And about 1/2 an inch shorter in length than her.

Hatched out barely 2", and now 6 5/8"

If she is a dwarf, it would explain all her health issues. I know there's a lot of health risks with dwarf animals.

 

[Melonhelmet]

I dont know if could be, but the FLD problem like you said is with albinos mostly because psychos presumably has it too.

Dwarfism in leopard geckos... Might be somethign to google.

 

[Allee Toler]

FLD is common in reptiles, mostly in albinos because of the two recessive traits. GiGi has it genetically to the point where she will ALWAYS need treatment. She can't over come it like psycho has done. The vet thought fixing her diet would fix it (and it usually does, unless if it's biochemical) and it hasn't improved at all.

Her legs are smaller in length, and look at the picture in my avi. See her stubby fingers? (it's cute. awww) They have nails, so they're full grown.

I've been talking to my vet a while about this, and I'm more convinced she has some form of dwarfism. Her head is extremely wide compared to her body, and her head is flat. Looking at her and a few other full grown leos (my cousins), she's got a flatter head, her hands are small, her arms are small, and her tail is one inch too short.

My vet referred me to a specialist and I made an appointment with Dr. Graman tomorrow morning.

All it takes is a simple DNA test. They can find the growth gene, and look at how it's aligned. If it's aligned differently, along with some other factors, I got myself a dwarf. If not, then he can still diagnose why she's so small.

 

[Melonhelmet]

FLD is common in reptiles, mostly in albinos because of the two recessive traits. GiGi has it genetically to the point where she will ALWAYS need treatment. She can't over come it like psycho has done. The vet thought fixing her diet would fix it (and it usually does, unless if it's biochemical) and it hasn't improved at all.

Her legs are smaller in length, and look at the picture in my avi. See her stubby fingers? (it's cute. awww) They have nails, so they're full grown.

I've been talking to my vet a while about this, and I'm more convinced she has some form of dwarfism. Her head is extremely wide compared to her body, and her head is flat. Looking at her and a few other full grown leos (my cousins), she's got a flatter head, her hands are small, her arms are small, and her tail is one inch too short.

My vet referred me to a specialist and I made an appointment with Dr. Graman tomorrow morning.

All it takes is a simple DNA test. They can find the growth gene, and look at how it's aligned. If it's aligned differently, along with some other factors, I got myself a dwarf. If not, then he can still diagnose why she's so small.

Oh I see! I wouldnt say Psycho has over come it yet. Her body still has the fat stores ther but she it eating and getting more fat in her tail. Im not convinced that she has FLD because Ive seen other geckos with the same fat as psycho without FLD. It could very well be it tho.

 

[Allee Toler]

I suggested FLD to you, not because of the fat in her belly, but the fact that I couldn't see her liver, only pink. Showing that the liver is covered by fat. "fatty liver disease". When it's fixed, you can see the liver. It's common, and can easily be fixed with a healthier diet. GiGi has an extreme case. Psycho just needed a diet. Lol.

Her fat deposits should be in her belly, then slowly move to her tail.
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Yay vets tomorrow!! I have to drive an hour to La Jolla to see him, but it's worth it. I hope she's presumed as healthy.

 

[Melonhelmet]

I suggested FLD to you, not because of the fat in her belly, but the fact that I couldn't see her liver, only pink. Showing that the liver is covered by fat. "fatty liver disease". When it's fixed, you can see the liver. It's common, and can easily be fixed with a healthier diet. GiGi has an extreme case. Psycho just needed a diet. Lol.

Her fat deposits should be in her belly, then slowly move to her tail.
------------
Yay vets tomorrow!! I have to drive an hour to La Jolla to see him, but it's worth it. I hope she's presumed as healthy.

Psychos diet is really nice I like the fact that I can still very it within reason.
I know that mealworms are higher in fat then crickets so I do 60-30-10.

 

[Melonhelmet]

Allee heres a gold nugget I found:

The captive leopard geckos we see today are mainly a mish-mash of the sub-species, so a smaller leopard gecko could be the normal size if its showing more traits from the sub-species.

 

[Clink]

I think it could have a lot to do with her traumatic early life. Just like humans, if lots of medical conditions conflict their little bodies, they are just never really the same (some of course). So it probably has to do with all the sicknesses she's had.
Just a thought, hopefully though the vet will be able to give you a definite answer.

 

[Allee Toler]

Yeah I was thinking it was the salmonella, but she was barely 15g when she was 5 months old, Lu's 7 1/2 weeks old, 8 weeks tomorrow, and he's passed that. By 5 months, they should be around 30g+. Something must of happened in the egg to make her so small at hatchling.

 

[Melonhelmet]

Yeah I was thinking it was the salmonella, but she was barely 15g when she was 5 months old, Lu's 7 1/2 weeks old, 8 weeks tomorrow, and he's passed that. By 5 months, they should be around 30g+. Something must of happened in the egg to make her so small at hatchling.

Low Incubation temps?

 

[Clink]

Yeah, it could be a million things, but probably just her juvie-hood that interfered with her growth. Hopefully though you get some cool answers from the geneticist.

 

[Allee Toler]

I'm stoked to go, just because I can't wait to see her genetics. Lol. My vet told me it's possible, but only genetic testing can diagnose it. Thank GOD we have insurance on her and only pay 10% of everything. $1200 genetic testing is now only $120. I can afford to take her only with insurance. Hell I'm at the vet once a month and I get charged only $20 an appointment, and it usually includes some shots. Haha.

Lu doesn't have insurance, he doesn't need it. Because GiGi was so tiny when we got her, we were worried. We knew compared to her clutchmates, that she was really tiny, but wanted her none the less.

 

[Allee Toler]

Low Incubation temps?

She was incubated with 2 other eggs, all hatched within 2 days of each other, GiGi being the middle hatch. They were each around 6g.

The breeder did say her egg looked a little small, but didn't think anything of it. She said it wasn't THAT much smaller to draw attention and worry.

So as far as I know, she's been tiny since she hatched, and will continue to be my itty bitty girl. Lol. Or Lil Mama as I call her.

 

[Melonhelmet]

She was incubated with 2 other eggs, all hatched within 2 days of each other, GiGi being the middle hatch. They were each around 6g.

The breeder did say her egg looked a little small, but didn't think anything of it. She said it wasn't THAT much smaller to draw attention and worry.

So as far as I know, she's been tiny since she hatched, and will continue to be my itty bitty girl. Lol. Or Lil Mama as I call her.

Could be nothing. It could just be some of a difff subspecies showing.

 

[Allee Toler]

Could be nothing. It could just be some of a difff subspecies showing.

I hope that's all it is. But the vet's pretty sure of a growth disorder, even if it's not dwarfism. I remember taking her in for her orientation and him going "oh my! What a cute hatchling!" and nick was like "She's six weeks old..." Lol.

She was kept in a 10gal until she hit 20g. We were afraid so much space would overwhelm her, and it did for the first few months. Even now she stays on the same half. When she wants to cool down, she goes on her hammock or on top of her strawberry. Lol.

 

[Allee Toler]

And what are all the subspecies? So I can look at their sizes. I wouldn't be surprised if she was a mix. The breeder bred only LVPA's and had to strengthen the bloodline somehow.

 

[Melonhelmet]

And what are all the subspecies? So I can look at their sizes. I wouldn't be surprised if she was a mix. The breeder bred only LVPA's and had to strengthen the bloodline somehow.

The thing is its all a mix now, not many CB leos are purely Eublepharis macularius. Eublepharis macularius macularius, E. m. afghanicus, E. m. fasciolatus, E. m. montanus, and E. m. smithi, are the five sub species of the leopard gecko which have now been rolled into one.

 

[Allee Toler]

GiGi has a very FLAT head. Flat and wide. I can't find a sub species that has a flat and wide head. D:<

I'll email the breeder and see what sub species she used. Awaaayyyyyyyyyyy to the email placcceee!

 

[Melonhelmet]

GiGi has a very FLAT head. Flat and wide. I can't find a sub species that has a flat and wide head. D:<

I'll email the breeder and see what sub species she used. Awaaayyyyyyyyyyy to the email placcceee!

She might not have used a sub-species. It might go back thru the bloodlines. Most if not ALL of todays captive leopard geckos have a bit of each sub in them

 

[redheadedstepchild]

You'll have to let us know what the geneticist say's. My girl Blondie is about half the length (body wise) as my other three girls. I really need to get some decent pics of them all LOL However I don't know her "early" life history