uroplatus and ???

[Geckofresh]

hello outhere

is there anybody outhere who has information or experience about putting an uroplatus and phelsuma in one vivarium??

i saw uroplatus henkeli and phelsuma madagascariensis grandis in one big vivarium

i thought about guentheris and some phelsumas... but which...??
is it possible? or would you say that this is not an good idea?!

thanks a lot

geckofresh

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Have you tried the "search" feature? I seem to recall a previous thread on this topic. But can't remember for sure. Try searching for it.

 

[crestedtimm]

A really big cage(4'x4'6) could house guentheri and standingi, or grandis and one of the bigger species.

Its really just care similarities, and I have never tried it, but considering their difference in size even, I would think that standings would totally ignore guenthers during the day.


Trial, error and time will tell, keep us posted!!!!

 

[David]

I think it will end with dehydrated or injured guentheri within a few weeks
I can't recommend mixing species.. but if I had, I would try small species such as abboti chekei, dubia, laticauda, lineata

madagascariensis and henkeli sounds good also

 

[miguel camacho!]

Exactly how "big" is "one big vivarium"?

 

[jadrig]

I would imagine that mixing P.madagascariensis sp. would be better due to size...I think that the size factor would be the only constraint...Standingi do prefer it pretty arid compared to most other Phelsuma, but they would be fine together...
Phelsuma are extremeley territorial within their own species/genus, but would probably get along well with chameleons and Uroplatus better than their own kind. For breeding purposes, its probably not a good idea to mix species/genera, but if it makes you happy...go for it...

You would need a larger enclosure to house a pair of larger Phelsumas than you would for 1 large Phelsuma and one large Uroplatus...

For large Phelsuma, if they are not compatable...a whole room is insuficient...

They would chase eachother out of the room!

As long as the leaftail cannot eat the day gecko, they should be fine...

 

[crestedtimm]

@David: Yeah, had he not mentioned guentheri pointedly, I wouldn't have even brought them up, as they are the most arid of the leaftails. I cant really imagine most phelsuma living long in my guentheri tank, aside from something like a standings.

Could it be done? Absolutely. Will you ever see a guentheri on the same tree, or
in the same area, albeit at night, as a standings? I think they occur in the same region. Would an adult standings eat a baby guenthers? In a heartbeat.

Im always the one who say that anything is possible with mixed species terrariums, but you need such a basis of knowledge in order to accomodate each animal.

Henkeli/Grandis is a tried and true success case...

Well, actually, I heard from a creditable source, that a certain breeder was so successful keeping the two together that the henkeli bred, layed eggs which hatched in the terrarium...and the grandis eat whatever babies they scared up while hunting during the day.

Would you consider your mixed community tank a success if the adults ate the offspring from the other cage inhabitants?

A preliminary idea of what should work, followed with a lil trial and error is the only route.

Keep us updated!!

 

[David]

well I didn't want to go through such a debate..
but a lot of people are reading us, so I'm not sure it is a good idea to say anything is possible with mixing species..
(even specifying it is not a noob project.. you know it is very relative)

it seems you don't have correct informations or references on both u. guentheri and p. standingi

p. standingi need a much more arid and hot enclosure than u. guentheri.. (due to their range and ecology)

also as phelsuma are more agressive than uroplatus, I found more logical to choose a bit smaller phelsuma than the uroplatus

 

[crestedtimm]

@David: No worries as far as a debate goes, I will only offer my opinions on anything, please don't ever take what I say as offensive. I will admit that by posting when I am tired, I omit certain things and thus may offer some general ideas that may need further research.

It is a little frustrating to be chastised for offering some advice though. I am not the know all end all of geckos, but I would like to think that any advise given on this forum would be evaluated for what it is worth and used accordingly. I could give exact coordinates for the location of standingi or guentheri in Mad, but why should I have to?

Its great how its always becomes a debate when someone asks about mixing species. Why is it such a big deal? I am of the opinion that you should do what you want with your animals, mix them if you want and if you wanted to ask for advice, you get it. I don't want to be envisioned as this "New-Eli", but can we discuss these things without someone getting angry?

I have really gone off on a tangent, and I apologize to geckofresh for the hijack.


Good advice would be to ask more questions in regards to species you would like to own, evaluate the info you gather and use what seems like the common opinion. Obtaining the species in question and successfully maintaining them in their own terrariums would be a start.



Timm

 

[Peter B]

I keep a pair of guentheri since 2 years toghether with Phelsuma abbotti chekei. They come from the same area and it works well.
The experience i have with Phelsuma grandis: don't keep anything else with it. Not even henkeli's! You will end up with.........only grandis.

 

[jadrig]

just about all phelsuma are extremely aggressive/territorial...but mostly towards their own species/genus...and towards diurnal animals...

I have a WC female Standings that I have had for over 15 years and started keeping her in a 30 gallon xtra high with another adult standings and an adult 16 inch Ambanja Blue Panther...they got along perfectly fine together for about 5 months...built a bigger cage for them and separated all 3...
In the past I have kept my standings in different enclosures and sometimes kept them more humid than I currently keep my henkeli...depending on the plants in the enclosure...

A leaftail gecko will grab a day gecko that it cant quite eat, so, they will definitley go after those quick Phelsuma....

Before I bred geckos, a long time ago, I used to mix species...If that is what you want then do it...
Like I said before, most geckos get along with other species as opposed to their own kind...
Me personally, I dont like to keep males and females of the same species together...I will tell people that it is very stressful to keep pairs together when not in breeding mode...
It is up to the keeper...whatever they want

I used to keep my standingi with a big whites tree frog too...they were fine....

 

[Geckofresh]

Uroplatus guentheri lives near Majunga...
Phelsuma dubia lives near Majunga too.
So my Vivarium is planned in a size of 150 to 170cm expanded (is that the right word??) 100cm deep and 160cm elevated (is that right too? i hope you what i mean... but these sizes are in CM not in inches...)

they both also have nearly the same size. 13 - 15 cm.

so... ?? tell me your experiences...

 

[David]

Timm I'm not angry and there is no offense
I also apologize, I'm not very diplomatic when I write on internet, and as english is not my native language, it's sometimes difficult to find the right words

it is the aim of a forum to debate, and then I am not agree with you about your general thoughts on mixing species, and esp. mixing standingi and guentheri

1. I insist on the fact that you can't say mixing species it is not a big deal on a public forum, without detailing all the process and conditions, giving strong examples and specifying it is not that easy

2. author's post is from Germany where uroplatus are no longer imported (I don't even talk about their situation in the wild, it is another subject)
thus it is very important to breed any animals and to do it seriously, a project more difficult to achieve if you multiply the factors to control (community big tank)

again, that's also only my thought about that thread, there is no personnal attack and I am far than truth-full, I just try to be logical and to share the little knowledge I have

 

[crestedtimm]

@David: I understand what can be lost in translation, no worries there.


I agree, I should have thought first before making such a general statement encouraging someone to experiment with animals that could harm each other violently.

I also agree that Uroplatus in captivity should be reproduced and housing them in a manner which does help this is not in the interest of the hobby.


I suppose Europe would be an expensive place to experiment with what Uroplatus/Phelsuma combinations work.

To understand my opinion on mixing species, take into consideration that I have worked at a reptile shop in America for 5 years. I deal with a very extensive inventory and have the ability to experiment if I want. I realize that this could be an angering statement, but it is the atmosphere that I am in.

But we will never know until it is tried and some people are curious.

I wish to help wherever possible, and more than welcome critical assessment of my advice.

 

[David]

To understand my opinion on mixing species, take into consideration that I have worked at a reptile shop in America for 5 years. I deal with a very extensive inventory and have the ability to experiment if I want. I realize that this could be an angering statement, but it is the atmosphere that I am in.

so I think you are wrong
it is well known that shop conditions cannot be taken into consideration
ie animals are so over-stressed that agressive behavior and others are not found (or not in the natural way)
you can usually see 2 males phelsuma housed together in a small tank and not fighting

But we will never know until it is tried and some people are curious.

then Peter shared a precise and personnal experience

I didn't talk about mine because it is not exactly the same species:
like jadrig, I sometimes mixed different species when I'd isolate males from females, tried with various bavayia, eurydactylodes, oedura, rhacodactylus, ebenavia, pachydactylus, paroedura, uroplatus to say the least

I had bad results with close species (for example males e. agricolae and e. vieillardi fight in my experience)

 

[deaxone]

just wanted to add a little to this debate,

i agree that uroplatus should probably not be in mixed species tanks or any set up that isnt 100% designed with the species in mind.i think the main priority with any uroplatus keeper should be breeding,any variables that may effect this should be iliminated,

that being said i do keep some male aff ebs and phants temporarily together,but these guys are so similar in size etc,that im yet to have any trouble,

i certainly agree that the stress and possible sub standard vivs in a shop are no place to be testing out what species work with each other,it also sets a bad example to any new or prospective keepers that walk round the shop,not to mention any newbies reading this,

maybe its because uroplatus are more easily available in the states but i must say ive been shocked at the price and attitude of some people towards the genus,this will certainly change should the export from madagasgar to the states be stopped.
i for one wanted leaf tails from the moment i saw pics,if they were easily available i might not have spent the time to research them,this makes me think there must be plenty of people in the states who have uros because they look cool,without knowing much about them,they occasionly pop up on kingsnake or other forums,i cant imagine how many there must be out there not getting the care they deserve,
i know how id be spending my money if i were in the states right now,ALL ON UROS!
u yanks dont know how lucky you are!!!!lol
i think most people in europe have worked so hard to find their uros they wouldnt think about risking them in any way,

dont get me wrong im sure it could work but WHY would anyone take the risk?,
personly i think if you want to mix species try it with species that arnt so rare and even then the novelty wares off pretty quickly!