Uroplatus hydration / drinking from standing water VIDEO PROJECT - Nightcam

[Roxyrox]

I'll elaborate in a bit, but the situation is fairly simple. My male uroplatus (1 sikorae and 1 fimbriatus, seperate cages) will only drink from water that drips down or sits on leaves when I mist. They ALWAYS drink, every day, every time. Of course, I can't be here 2x a day to handle this. I've taken steps to hydrate them in my absence such as fogging machines, but that only keeps the humidity up. It doesn't produce thick water drops, just vapor. What I REALLY want to know is are they drinking? If I have to leave, will the time I'm gone equate to time not drinking? If I absolutely need to leave for 3 days, will they die? I dont need that on my conscience.

It's not that I leave constantly otherwise I wouldn't have these animals, but it's not reasonable to be bound to them 365 days per year. Given the time and money I've put into these things, I should be able to head out for the weekend.

Well of course, I'm asleep when they're awake, so unless I want to pull an all nighter and completely interrupt my life watching them, I suppose I wont know if they drink from their water bowls.

Thats what I thought until I got a new HD video camera w/ night vision capability. Starting right now, I am going to video tape the water bowls every night for the rest of the week. Now I'll know if they find their water or not. I've literally put them in the water bowl so they know its there, but neither of my uroplatus seem all that bright.

Hopefully I'll get some answers, and I'll report what I find.

 

[miguel camacho!]

Scott Pfaff of Riverbanks Zoo has assured me that at least some of the Uroplatus will soak in water dishes. It'll be interesting to see what you come up with, and even if you don't see anything, I'd encourage you to keep up the work to see what you can.

Will you be specifically targeting the water bowls in your viewfinder, or will you try to get a wider view of the enclosure? I think you could run the possibility of capturing other interesting behaviors.

Good luck.

 

[aquapimp]

I'm interested in your findings, too.

 

[Roxyrox]

Miguel, right now i'm focusing on the water. I need to have the camera docked to do this because the battery can't handle it. Because of this, I can't use the tripod, so I'll need to figure something else out, but I will definitely do that soon - I'm curious too.

I'd like to archive these, but the videos are about 40 gb each in HD. SD is worthless :biggrin:

When I check these I playback in 4x which does about 10 seconds per frame. Plenty of time to see him crawl his way over.

4/27/10 Day 1: 12 am - 8 am - no luck. The only thing that drank from the bowl were the crickets. At least they're hydrated...

 

[jadrig]

Well, if you want to know if they will drink from standing water...look at the pics in my album...

I have a pic of a WC female henkeli drinking from a water bowl...

If they did not drink still water, they probably would have died out a lont time ago...maybe...

they SMELL the water, thats how they know to drink it...

If I go away for 4-6 days, or longer, I put a water dish in there with them...

If you have a timer on the lights, set it to where there are a few less hours of daylight to slow down their metabolism and so that it wont dry them out as much...

Most geckos get most of their moisture/H20 from the food that they eat...

Moisten the substrate a little more, and also, give the water manually with an eyedropper the day you leave...this will help out too.

It does become a hassle to always have a water dish in there because feeders ALWAYS end up in there...be sure to put a little piece of plastic plant hanging in the water so that feeders can climb out...

Also, they almost always deficate in the water bowls...its natural for all animals to deficate in water.

I even had a blue panther chameleon that drank from still water...

As long as the animals are healthy, you should be able to leave them for 5-8 days without spraying...if they are properly set up...

 

[Viridovipera]

There is a realy easy solution to your problem: buy a misting system and hook it up to a timer :cheer: I set mine to spray about 30sec in the morning, just before the lights go on, and then about 40sec in the evening just after lights out. In the "rainy-season" i make it abit longer or add about 15sec of spraying in the middle of the day. I can go away for a few weeks easily without worrying - just have someone come by a few days appart to feed and check that the power is on and the watertank is still full

But never the less, it will be very interessting to see what you find with your project.

Cheers,
Jan Philip

 

[Roxyrox]

There is a realy easy solution to your problem: buy a misting system and hook it up to a timer :cheer: I set mine to spray about 30sec in the morning, just before the lights go on, and then about 40sec in the evening just after lights out. In the "rainy-season" i make it abit longer or add about 15sec of spraying in the middle of the day. I can go away for a few weeks easily without worrying - just have someone come by a few days appart to feed and check that the power is on and the watertank is still full

But never the less, it will be very interessting to see what you find with your project.

Cheers,
Jan Philip

I did seriously consider a mist system, but I don't want to rot the plants. the balance between airflow and humidity to keep the plants and gecko safe is tough, but right now I have a good humidity stasis with the fogger. In any case, the misting system is 150 for what seems to me as a cheap little pump and nozzles, so if I do go that route it'll be DIY.

If I can get away with the water bowl, ill be a happy camper. The glass is already drilled so if it comes down to it, I can easily set up a different system.




Day 2..... 4.28.2010: no activity. crickets seem to find it quickly though.

 

[miguel camacho!]

Well, if you want to know if they will drink from standing water...look at the pics in my album...

I have a pic of a WC female henkeli drinking from a water bowl...

If they did not drink still water, they probably would have died out a lont time ago...maybe...

they SMELL the water, thats how they know to drink it...

If I go away for 4-6 days, or longer, I put a water dish in there with them...

If you have a timer on the lights, set it to where there are a few less hours of daylight to slow down their metabolism and so that it wont dry them out as much...

Most geckos get most of their moisture/H20 from the food that they eat...

Moisten the substrate a little more, and also, give the water manually with an eyedropper the day you leave...this will help out too.

It does become a hassle to always have a water dish in there because feeders ALWAYS end up in there...be sure to put a little piece of plastic plant hanging in the water so that feeders can climb out...

Also, they almost always deficate in the water bowls...its natural for all animals to deficate in water.

I even had a blue panther chameleon that drank from still water...

As long as the animals are healthy, you should be able to leave them for 5-8 days without spraying...if they are properly set up...

Joe, I hope you don't feel as though I pick on you sometimes, I just have real trouble sometimes with some of your opinions. You know we sat down together back in the day and had good conversation, so I really don't mean any of this to be personal, just open conversation.

First of all, through an inspection of your gallery, I didn't see any shots of any of your henkeli drinking from a bowl.

I don't doubt it happens, I just think it's a bad idea to rely on a bowl of water when you leave animals for days on end, and on top of that you (and most of us) admit that in trials of having water bowls in with these geckos, overnight they'll be contaminated with feces. Water bowls, at least in my opinion, should not be used unless you're able to clean them daily. They otherwise provide opportunity for spread of parasitic, bacterial, and fungal infections to cohabitants (including feeders left crawling through the cage).

It's a nitpick...but geckos do not drinking by smelling water. I know it just came out wrong the way you worded it, I just wanted to clarify. But technically, water is tasteless and odorless. On the other hand, it's also a chemical, and there is little doubt that reptiles have well-developed chemosensation. At the same time, I think many people underestimate animals' awareness of their surroundings.

Dying out a long time ago by not drinking standing water? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that what you're getting at is more than collection of water droplets on the body and surrounding vegetation and structures...more like water pooled in knots of a tree and whatnot. But I've still got to disagree. While I'll entertain the fact that there is likely plenty of small places that collect rainwater, I don't think these animals would have died out long ago without it. We're talking about reptiles, pretty much the first animals to walk this earth that evolved very efficient means of water conservation, most obviously in the evolution of a) their scaly skin, b) more efficient waste, and c) shelled eggs.

And as far as lowering metabolism by shortening the light cycle, I'm not sure that makes sense, especially when we're talking about nocturnal animals. If there is, indeed, a difference in resting metabolic rate of these geckos between light and dark periods, I would hypothesize that metabolic rates would be higher during the gecko's active period (lights out).

And finally, I would personally never recommend that a keeper leaves his/her Uroplatus without being sprayed for a week. A shallow water dish could easily dry up in this time, and furthermore, refer back to my comments on water dishes above. I know this conflicts with my statement re: reptile water conservation above, but we're talking about a montane cloud/rainforest group of animals.

 

[Viridovipera]

I did seriously consider a mist system, but I don't want to rot the plants. the balance between airflow and humidity to keep the plants and gecko safe is tough

If you worry about the plants rotting, just put in a drainage layer. Some pebbels with some cloth over it should do the trick, or a fake bottom with crates. Then all your excess water can run down, and your substrate doesnt turn into a swamp

If you dont spray the terrarium too much, it should be able to dry up in a few hours (the branches and plants, not the soil). You only need the propper ammount of ventilation and lighting.

 

[jadrig]

Haha, Mike, I always appreciate your technical comments;-), Not all of us are technically ZOOLOGISTS...(I know at least the 2 of us are though;-))...


Theres a spotty picture with the female hanging on the side of a water bowl while holding her head up to swallow after she lapped up some water...They always swallow with their heads up...This pic might work...not sure...

I try to get my point across as easily as possible...

I just wanted to let this person know that their geckos were not going to die if they had to go out of town for 3-5 days...

Just some positive reassurance...its stressful the first time or two when going out of town for a couple days w/o anyone there to care for the animals...

I am not trying to say that these things are like leopard geckos and you can leave them w/o food or H20 for two straight months and theyll still be kicking...

I gave my disclaimer about the water bowls...they do help out with humidity and hydration though...

The fewer hours of light will prevent the substrate from drying out as much more than anything...
Also, the lights usually produce heat, increasing the animals metabolic rate wether they are resting or active...

I am not saying that it is a good idea to leave these animals for long periods of time w/o daily care, but established specimens are a whole lot hardier than most people think...

I would not want someone to pass up an opportunity in life to where they WOULD have to travel for several days and leave their geckos behind...

I did leave my WC satanics, along with my entire collection behind when I was at a Mayfly, Stonefly, and Caddisfly (E.P.T.) seminar/class for two straight weeks(Highlands Biological Station, NC)...I did have someone spraying them and feeding the larger animals...but the satanics just got sprayed once a day...
They were healthy and I did have a series of large feeding containers set up with various feeders, and food for the feeders as well...
Once again, if you can get some help with their care while you are away, problem solved, but you should not be discouraged about leaving these animals for a couple days at a time, given they are healthy specimens...

I appreciate the technical angle that you are coming from Mike, and I also know that you dont want someone who is new to these animals to feel over confident in leaving them for days at a time...But the last thing that I would want to do is mislead someone...;-)
I usually try to post the upside and downside of certain practices that are up for debate...

 

[jadrig]

Oh, Mike, are you going to the Reptile show in Raleigh this Sat or Sun??

I'm going to stock up on some feeders...

I now have 4 C.H. adult and one W.C. mellers chameleons...

Them things eat A LOT!:shock:

 

[miguel camacho!]

Nah, Raleigh is a 5 hour drive for me...and since I'm not really keeping anything anymore, I couldn't justify the drive just to look at what might turn up at the show.

 

[Roxyrox]

This is turning out well, I see a lot of excellent points here that help me figure out how to make this setup more "vacation friendly," and to discover their behavior. Its not an issue leaving for 2 days, I do it all the time on the weekends. But a good point was brought up that I shouldn't pass up an opprotunities because of being worried about their care.


Day 3: 5/1/10 - no activity. I did see a millipede. Only one though. It may have came along with the tree thats in there.


Day 4: 5/2/10 - ACTIVITY! Not what I wanted, but it confirms previous posters suspicion about deficating in the water.

He crept down really slow, took about 4 licks of the water, and proceeded to straddle the bowl. He put his tail straight up and went about his business. Then walked up a plant next to the bowl, never to be seen for the rest of the night.

This explains why I see poop in and by the bowl. I thought it dropped from his elevated resting spot, but he actually goes and uses it like a toilet.




I don't know how to take these videos and post them where they can be seen by all of you. Is there some sort of way to upload compressed videos right to this website??

 

[tucker]

might help

for years ive read not to have water features with uroplatus. well i decided to do it anyway. and my satanics my plants and the entire eco system has benifited from it. humidty is never a issue theres always water to drink. and some have figured out it gives verry easy hunting. i have a waterfall that comes down the the custom backround in all diffrent areas and then dumps into a pond that is about 3 inches deep then i filled the pond area with gravel so its only about elbow deep for the geckos. my geckos have learned that sitting in the pond makes for catching drowning crickets easy. they also seem to realise that the water fall splashes up on the glass always leaving droplets of water. i find that my geckos use the waterfall back round and pond as much if not more than there plants and branches. im not saying anybody should put a strong moving curtain or deep water feature in there setups but if done right its verry eye apealing and seems to give the geckos great stimulation as well. hope this helps and sorry about the spelling. for some reason spell check wont work on this computer.

 

[Roxyrox]

for years ive read not to have water features with uroplatus. well i decided to do it anyway. and my satanics my plants and the entire eco system has benifited from it. humidty is never a issue theres always water to drink. and some have figured out it gives verry easy hunting. i have a waterfall that comes down the the custom backround in all diffrent areas and then dumps into a pond that is about 3 inches deep then i filled the pond area with gravel so its only about elbow deep for the geckos. my geckos have learned that sitting in the pond makes for catching drowning crickets easy. they also seem to realise that the water fall splashes up on the glass always leaving droplets of water. i find that my geckos use the waterfall back round and pond as much if not more than there plants and branches. im not saying anybody should put a strong moving curtain or deep water feature in there setups but if done right its verry eye apealing and seems to give the geckos great stimulation as well. hope this helps and sorry about the spelling. for some reason spell check wont work on this computer.

Why would you not use a small water feature w/ a filter?

The only reason I didn't is because I don't want to drill more holes in the glass.

Edit: I have a 12" fibriatus...unlikely to drown in shallow water, and the crickets are rarely by the water according to my videos

 

[Roxyrox]

Day 5 5/3/2010: No activity

Day 6 5/4/2010: No activity.....


........Can these things see infrared light? I SWEAR he's looking at me, but he ignores the water.

 

[tucker]

i am using a filter and false bottom type setup.

 

[Roxyrox]

5/5/2010: No activity


5/6/2010: No activity


Im gonna keep at this, it strikes me as odd that I've actually been able to see him in his waking hours but he won't drink :?

 

[miguel camacho!]

Well, hopefully you're still spraying anyway (I assume you're doing so). Kinda goes to show that proper misting regime can negate all need for water bowl.

 

[Roxyrox]

Well, hopefully you're still spraying anyway (I assume you're doing so). Kinda goes to show that proper misting regime can negate all need for water bowl.

From what I see, I agree.

I'll write up a procedure for this experiment soon.

Not misting for the purposes of this experiment wouldn't really sit right with me. He gets the rain morning and night if I'm here.

5/8/2010 : No activity