Feeding Blatta lateralis ( rusty reds )

gekkocorner

New member
Anybody here feeding lateralis to their Cat geckos?

I was Just wondering if they are a good staple diet for them. I had problems feeding lateralis in the past to Yellow and red Ackies because their high protein ratio. Once I changed to crickets I stopped having problems with the monitors.

Any Input will be apreciated.
 
The monitor issue is odd, ours do perfectly fine on turkistans, it may have had more to do with what you fed them than the roaches themselves. We don't feed our just turkistans though so our experience may not be identical to yours.

Regardless variety is better in the long haul.

Its always been my opinion that turkistans aren't a great staple feeder alone. In my experience mixing them with another type of insect results in better growth and overall production.

More often than not I feed them along with lobster roaches, in what comes out to be about a 50/50 ratio give or take a few points on either side. If I were to keep only one type of roach it would be lobsters over everything else. When I've been strapped for feeders for whatever reason, lobster roaches have always proved acceptable over the 6 months to as long as a full year needed to recover my other roach populations.

Maurice Pudlo
 

gekkocorner

New member
Thanks for your responses.

It might had been that I was having problems as I was feeding them only Turkistans to them ( like fast food monitor food! ). But some were having spine problems. weird lumps on limbs and loss of function of back legs. A vet determined that it was due to a dietary defficiency but they were not 100% sure as to the why or if the roaches were the reason, but the monitors were only feeding on reds and occasional mice. And yes they had access to UVB and supplements. once I switched to crickets I stopped having problems.

I have seen posts in chameleon forums about animals getting gout and similar problems when only fed Turkinstans. Might all had to do with the high protein/low shell ratio.

Thanks again.
 
Turkistans lower moisture content, coupled with a nearly double the protein and ash content are possible contributing factors to that issue. In my opinion this reinforces the need to provide variety in an intelligent manner.

In combination with even just one other feeder type the values of the entire diet change quite alot. In the macronitrient realm protein content is almost always going to be reduced, and the types of amino acids that total combined protein value will average out. Same goes for fats, carbohydrates, and ash content.

Each insect even when fed an identical diet, converts their diet into a completely differing set of proteins, fats, etc.

While I have had good success using a single staple feeder, I have always had better results when feeding two or more feeder types, I do not shun the higher fat content feeders, rather I use their typically lower protein content as an averaging tool.

In general my opinion is that 20 - 22% protein is enough in the insectivorous reptiles diet, not that this is a hard and fast figure but rather the good average that covers most of my reptiles needs very well.

Crickets work well as feeders because they contain close to the right levels of protein. Their ash (mineral content) is half as much as most roaches, the result is complicated supplementation requirements.

Many who use a variety of feeders and fawn over their insects food and care use far less supplementation because the diet provides most everything that is required.

While I will fully agree with you that there is evidence that suggests that a very high protein site leads to issues in reptiles including those issues you have had direct experience with I maintain that a varied diet along with proper husbandry alloys the use of turkistan roaches as feeders.

Maurice Pudlo
 

Riverside Reptiles

Administrator (HMFIC)
I have to agree with Maurice and should add that I feed all of my herps a variety of feeders. For felinus, I've found lateralis and crickets to be the best received by them. I've never had really any luck with getting them to eat dubia or any worms of any type. But have read of others that, with hand feeding have.
 

gekkocorner

New member
Fully agree with both of you. I've had luck feeding them soldier grubs and they really go for them as they move a lot but others don't touch them. and of course the females love their snails.

Feel free to move this to the Feeders forum if needed. Thanks for your replies.
 
Have you tried feeding the soldier fly grubs prior to feeding them off? When kept on the wood shavings they are shipped with they seem to become less attractive as feeders. But when fed well they plump up and seem more acceptable to a variety of critters.

I think this post should stay here, take the information and assess how it works for you and your geckos, the feed back will be valuable to anyone who comes across this post in the future.

Ethan feeds a combination of turkistans and crickets
I feed a combination of turkistans and lobster roaches
Your finding soldier fly grubs and snails as acceptable feeders

That's quite a chunk of feeder diversity, and more fully answers the original question for anyone that needs to know.

Maurice Pudlo
 

Riverside Reptiles

Administrator (HMFIC)
Let me add just a few more details in that, I also use snails for females. And also, I'm speaking specifically about A. felinus. I do utilize other feeder insects for different species. I would imagine that lobster roaches would work just as well as crickets and/or lateralis for felinus. I just don't tend to use them because they're climbers.

Also, as for the protein issues, I know that a lot of people feed their roaches with dog/cat food. I would imagine that when fed a primary diet of such high animal protein, it could very easily result in dietary issues in the herps that then feed on those roaches.
 

gekkocorner

New member
Let me add just a few more details in that, I also use snails for females. And also, I'm speaking specifically about A. felinus. I do utilize other feeder insects for different species. I would imagine that lobster roaches would work just as well as crickets and/or lateralis for felinus. I just don't tend to use them because they're climbers.

Also, as for the protein issues, I know that a lot of people feed their roaches with dog/cat food. I would imagine that when fed a primary diet of such high animal protein, it could very easily result in dietary issues in the herps that then feed on those roaches.

I stay away from Lobsters for the same reason. if they were not climbers they would be a great replacement for crickets.

As far feeding the roaches a dog/cat diet I believe the problem is that the animals that feed on High protein fed roaches end up ingesting not only a High protein roach, but also they get an additional dose of protein from the gut contents of the roaches. for this reason I only use a gutload that has only plant based ingridients.

As far as Soldier Grubs I breed them myself so I just pick up dark ones that are getting ready to become adults ( higher calcium content ) and trow them in a little plate. The cats usually go right away for them, but like I said some don't touch them, mostly males, they don't really eat a whole bunch compared to the girls.
 
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