How Fast do Your Cresties Grow?

[Turtlestork]

Hey everyone,

I was looking over my records today and realized just how long I've been keeping cresties. The thing is, mine take about 8 months or more to reach their breeding size. I feel like I see so many people that have geckos that grow much larger than that much faster. I was wondering how long it took for yours on average. I know it differs depending on gecko, as I have a few young ones bigger than the older ones. I feed straight CGD. I'm afraid of crickets, as in I worry about parasites, but should I feed them those? What do you guys do?

TS

 

[Hilde]

I wouldn't worry if a crestie took 12 - 15 months to reach breeding weight, but would worry if it took only 8-10.

Eight months is way too young to breed. They shouldn't be bred before they're a year old, and a few months more for females isn't a bad idea.
Reaching breeding size - which I assume is weight - is not a good thing. Just reaching 'breeding weight' doesn't mean they're ready. They need a certain amount of time to grow, for the internal organs to mature. Getting fat early doesn't imply everything is adult size and ready. In human terms it would be a fat, pregnant 10 year old, which is obviously not right.

I'll consider breeding a male at 14-15 months if there's a really good reason. Females wait at least until their 2nd summer -which would make them 20 months minimum.

 

[Turtlestork]

I guess when I say 8 months I'm more talking like to get the weight on to be of breeding potential. The geckos grow for a while, but take forever to "bulk up" so to speak. It's not like they're getting fat, but mature. For example. I got my two females as 2 month hatchlings in early 08 and they just came into their breeding potential this last summer. I usually wait until the geckos is around 35 grams consistently for a month or two before breeding. I keep my geckos in nice big tanks, so they sit around less and don't get as fat, and actually grow nice and lean, like a wild, foraging gecko would. I see some people have geckos around 6-8 weeks and the gecko is around 2.5 inches or so snout to vent. I have a few that are still 2 inches and already 3 months old or more. Is this weird, or is it just normal then? Thanks.

Hilde, may I ask when you tend to put your geckos up for sale? As in, what size/age?

TS

 

[Hilde]

Part of the age/size thing could be a matter of incubation.
If you incubate the eggs on the warm size, they hatch much sooner - some people have them hatch at 70-90 days. Incubate them cooler, it takes longer, but they are much bigger when they hatch. They've had time to grow, absorb all the yolk and are stronger as well. Mine tend to hatch around 120-130 days, some even around 140. They're visibly bigger, stronger, more lively than the shorter incubated ones. If I compare one of my 2 month old 140 day hatchlings to one that hatched at 70 days, there will be a very big difference. My 2 month old has been 'developing' for around 200 days, while the 70 day hatchling has only managed 130. That could explain why some people have seemingly huge geckos at the same age as others have tiny wimpy things.

I normally try not to sell any until they're 3-5 months old. By then they're well established, have started to show some indication of their adult colours and pattern. I don't weigh any of mine regularly, so I have no clue how much they weigh at that age. I've been breeding cresties since '98, have a pretty good idea if they're too small or not growing properly.

Another possible reason for larger or smaller geckos is genetics. I still have some F1 breeders. Their offspring are much larger than those from the 'fancier' morphs who've been line bred for that particular trait. It's not always the case, but I've seen it often enough.

 

[Turtlestork]

Ok. What temperatures (about) do you incubate at? My room temperature tends to fluctuate a lot, but I worry when it is under 70*. Sometimes I add supplemental heat, fearing death of the eggs. Is this usually not an issue?

That makes entire sense, and that was what I was thinking. I felt that any younger could be too stressful.

Yes, I've noticed that myself. I have my original male who is my oldest yet smallest gecko, but some of my newer breeder males are super beefy. I see some of these geckos on here and they are even larger! Crazy, how structure varies in this species. It must be due to the limited genetic diversity we have in the hobby.

Thanks so much!
TS

 

[Hilde]

Normally I incubate crested gecko eggs at room temperature, even in the basement, never letting the temperature get above 72 F (22 C). Years ago when I first bred cresties I did the incubator thing and it worked okay. Then I was told that they hatch bigger and hardier if incubated longer at a lower temperature so, I switched, and have been doing it that way ever since.
Any eggs laid in summer go to the basement where the temperature ranges from 65 - 70 F. Every few years we might get an extended heat wave which raises the basement temperature a bit, but it's never gone above 73F. Eggs laid in late September or October probably won't go downstairs. Once we're into furnace season, the temperature is set to 68F, so any room in the house will work for the eggs.
A few years ago I incubated several clutches of eggs in the incubator to show the difference in size:

The 'cool' gecko was a week old when I took that picture, but that's nowhere long enough to grow much. He'd only started eating at the time, growth would have been very minimal, so it's still a pretty good reference for size difference.
I'm not trying to pass this off as scientific proof of any kind, but you can get the idea of how differently they hatch. I didn't do a full scientific type situation with carefully controlled conditions, it was just random clutches put into the incubator at a known temperature range.

One year I forgot to take 3 of deli cups upstairs once the weather cooled off. About 5 weeks after moving the others upstairs, I found the last 3 cups still down there and moved them up with the others around 68F. The basement was around 60-62F during those 5 weeks. The eggs still hatched safely, though they took around 140-145 days.

 

[Justin Collins]

I've done a fair amount of research on the breed and they grow in varying stages. Although environmental factors can help or hinder in the growth of the animals as well.

Cresties tend to do well in indirect bright light by day then total darkness at night. I give mine a 12 hour cycle of day and night, this helps keep them happy and functioning in a natural pace. Also I keep my temps at an ambient 80f. A little bit higher in the basking area of the cage but not much, these kind of geckos are nocturnal and don't bask unless they are freezing which is very bad.

To answer your question on growth, there are no specific time frames to relay. Being fed on a simple Crested diet, they are not getting a varied enough diet. DO FEED CRICKETS, use armstrongcrickets.com for purchasing crickets, they are very professional and have always delivered the best produce to me and many of my friends. You can also customize your order to more or less crickets. Also give Cresties rotting fruit like strawberries, applesauce, and bananas; they tend to like all of these things and it helps them produce a better gut flora for digesting prey. Supplement them sparingly with vitamins, to much will cause vitA poisoning. I give mine vitamins about once every two weeks.

Finally they should be getting ready to shed their skins about once to twice a month once they are a few inches long. Smaller ones shed more often provided they receive enough protein. However I never feed any of my animals mealworms, they are nasty, hard to digest, and provide more fatty protein than crickets. When I first got into reptiles I fed many of my animals mealworms thinking everything would be okay. Unfortunately many of my animals died due to not digesting the mealworms properly. So from now on I will not feed them mealworms. If you want a tasty treat to give them, offer them wax or butter worms again sparingly because these to are high in fat.

Within a two year period, your Crested Gecko should be breeding size, about 8in. Some try to hurry them along with more feeding and higher temps, I don't because this does not allow their bodies to adjust with the stress of growth. Just be patient give them good crickets and rotten fruit, live plants to live in and they will thrive very well and live a very long time, 15+ years.

 

[Ozymandias]

i was talking with the breeder that supplies the store i work at with cresties and while he didn't say anything about temp and that probably has some factors in there. he did believe that young cresties need more protein in there diet and did feed crickets along with CGD for his geckos. if you're afraid of crickets / don't want to use them you might try a complete diet designed for gargoyle geckos, or the Clarks complete diet might work too. it would defiantly be worth looking into.

just a side note i think mixed diets are better i use roaches, Clarks, and Repeshy CGD. even just Clarks and Repeshy would be a healthier mix in my opinion

 

[Turtlestork]

Hilde-
Ok, I'll take down the temps immediately then. I think the Rhac guide said something like 70-78 or something, and seeing as all hatched I was afraid to lower it. I'd much rather have stronger hatches, however. I like that reference, and am definitely bookmarking the thread to reference it in the future! My babies all live, but I find that it takes a bit more to get them "going", as in they stay small for a while. Of course, I;m sure genetics has something to do with it, but still.

Justin-
Yes, I order crickets often have been for a few years. I don't prefer Armstrong in particular, though. In fact, many of the online companies I ordered from that I liked no longer exist, or don't ship in cool weather. I now buy mine from a local shop that get's them pretty fresh, and they last nice and long.

I say I'm "afraid" bot meaning that I don't like handling the crickets, I just worry about diseases. They aren't clean animals and I always fear what they could be giving my animals. I currently buy the largest ones for my pixie frog, but I'm going to start buying a 50/50 mix so that I can have small enough ones for my animals.

And I try to feed rotting fruit, but mine never take it. I do feed a puree I make that consists of mango, apples, and some CGD and calcium powder. They go head over heels to lick this up. I feed crickets to my larger ones, and they love them, but I owrr yabout impaction for the smaller ones.

Ozy-

Is Clark's all that great? I was thinking about just getting multiple flavors, but if Clark's is nice I'll do that.

What size crickets do you guys feed? I was thinking about buying pinheads for my smaller ones, but is that going to be too small?

Thanks,
TS

 

[Ozymandias]

not sure how great clarks is to be honest, i do know that my geckos like it better then the reshy but as i said it's not the only thing i feed them. i actually did a little research on it sence my last post on this thread and found there was a thread about it on the Repeshy forums and a few others around 2005. back then it it was not meant to be a meal replacement like CGD but more used in tandem with crickets. now i do know that since then both the Clarks and Repeshy diets have gone through some changes. Repeshy added some stuff to make his diet more appealing to geckos and clarks i believe was taken over by PMP reptiles or something.

i actually emailed PMP reptiles a bit back about the differences of the original (20%), gargoyle (30%) and Complete diets. this is the response i got back from them.

Roy,
Regarding our diets and the differences, the original (20%) and gargoyle (30%) require supplemental feedings where the Complete diet does not require supplemental feedings. We have all our frugivorous geckos on the complete diet and still feed crickets about once a week as an additional treat. If you are looking for a diet to feed gargoyles and cresties, any would suffice as long as you are supplementing with insects. I would recommend though, that you select the complete diet as it will give your geckos as extra amount of nutrients. It contains more fats and proteins then the other two and there is really no downside to the complete over the other two choices. So, any would be fine, but I would suggest the Complete as it will have a bit extra in it.
Hope this helps,


Patrick Papara
PMP Reptiles
PMP Index

for crickets at work we feed our young ones just plain small crickets and thay gobble them up. that being said the youngest ones we have are a bit over 2 months old and probably the youngest cresties we have ever had, but thay still take them on no problem. btw i under stand why you don't like crickets it actually one of the reasons i switched over to roaches, that and i haven't had to buy crickets for my geckos in a long time.