Mealworms as staple?

[Matusallem]

I've been using both mealworms and superworms as staple for my leopard geckos. According to Ron Tremper's "The Herpetoculture of Leopard Geckos" 2004 edition, mealworms are a good staple for leopard geckos. Ron Tremper claims that he feeds his leopard geckos only mealworms and this has been a constant for all his "Twenty-seven Generations of Living Art"; quoted from text: "Mealworms, once the staple for keeping insect-eating lizards, have unjustifiably gotten a bad rap (reputation) in recent years. Unfortunately, many myths are still circulating in the reptile hobbyist community about mealworms, including that their chitinous exoskeleton cannot be digested and therefore can lead to impaction, and that ingested mealworms will eat their way out of the reptile's stomach" - Page 97.

Later in the text he goes on writing: "RT (Ron Tremper) has fed regular mealworms, Tenbrio molitor, exclusively to his leopard geckos for 30 years without one instance of ill effect." - Page 98.

I don't think that Ron Tremper is the bearer of ABSOLUTE truth but he is a re-known breeder and has been doing this for quite a few years. What do you guys think? Mealworms or Not?! If not, then what is best as feeding staple for leos and why?

 

[Allee Toler]

I personally have no beef with mealworms to some extent... I don't think their chitin is hard to digest with proper temps (I've never seen undigested shells in my geckos' outs). They're insectivores, it's what their bodies do. The rumor they eat through stomaches is ridiculous. I don't believe they should be used as a sole staple. They're pretty fatty, but if used with a mix of feeders I personally see no reason to not feed them as long as there's a variety of feeders. Superworms are also fatty and high in phosphorus, I don't agree with using them as a sole staple, either. My geckos really love their roaches, though... It didn't take any time at all to adjust them over.

 

[Matusallem]

Which roaches do you use?

 

[Ozymandias]

realistically i think Temper is probably wrong and we do have a sticky in the feeder section called "The Pro's and Con's of using mealworms". i personally believe in and use roaches as my staple feeder, but as always variety important. Not just one kind of roach ether my main feeders are B. dubia, B. Lateralis, and B. discoid, i will be getting a colony started of Orangehead Roach "Eublaberus posticus" so will see how those work out.

 

[Allee Toler]

B. Dubias. I keep them in a 10gallon and just let them do their thing. Once every other week I pull out a bunch of nymphs and set them in a 6qt to feed off during the week.

 

[Matusallem]

So, say I wanted to start a B. dubia colony for a max of 20 leopard geckos. How many I need to start off my colony?

 

[Ozymandias]

for 20 i would probably start out with at least 50-100 and let them breed for a good couple a months so you have a stable population. one of the first things i did with my dubias was feed off of the colony too soon. which meant i didn't have a stable colony and had to let it grow for 3 months more than i would have if i didn't feed off it. that's actually one of the reasons i started using multiple different roach species to feed my geckos from.

 

[Matusallem]

Which other roaches do yo use? Which gave you more rewarding results and why?----NEver mind the species list... I missed your first post!

 

[Ozymandias]

B. Lateralis looks much more like the quintessential roach is relatively speedy but breeds amazingly fast and good for geckos that only responds to movement.

B. discoid similar to the B. Dubia except they are bigger and are not sexual dimorphic also i find temperature isn't as important for breeding as b. dubia but you being in panama that shouldn't be a problem.

i will also be getting a colony of Orangehead Roach "Eublaberus posticus" pretty soon and from what i understand thay make a pretty good feeder also thay are more similar to Dubia and discoid but thay play dead less often and are more active. thay do need a high protein diet and warmer temperatures to really produce well from what i've read.

all of these roaches cant climb glass or fly which is why i like them as feeders. there are other options for feeders but thay ether fly or climb glass which for me just isn't worth the trouble. also i think most of those except for B. Lateralis are actually found in your area of the world

also here is a short list of some other non climbing, non flying roaches out there.

Eublaberus prosticus
Eublaberus distanti
Eublaberus sp. "Ivory"
Blaberus boliviensis
Blaberus fusca (can flutter a little)
Blaberus parabolicus
Blaberus atropos
Byrsotria sp. "Cuba"
Blatta orientalis
Paratemnopteryx couloniana

 

[Matusallem]

Yeah... so I read. Maybe I should go to the field and search for B. dubia. I have caught B. discoidalis before, but I find these way to big and too slow to breed.

 

[Ozymandias]

you usually dont use the adults for geckos you use the nymphs for that reason though i find larger lizards like dearded dragons love the adults

Yeah... so I read. Maybe I should go to the field and search for B. dubia. I have caught B. discoidalis before, but I find these way to big and too slow to breed.

also if you catch them from the wild to breed let them breed for a couple generations to get rid of any parasites or other nasties out there. if fact what i would do is when you see nymphs to separate them into a new container so thay don't get contaminated by adults.

 

[Matusallem]

See, thats the other thing! Nymphs bred from infected adults will be born infected. Even if separated its inevitable to get rid of the parasites, and there is no way that only by letting them breed a couple of generations parasites will just cease to exist. Parasites will be just moving on from gen to gen. The only thing that can be hoped is that the parasite that the roaches have do not harm reptiles. Parasites are usually very specialized to the host, and the evolutionary jump from insects to reptiles is huge, making it less likely to find a parasite affecting adult roaches and also capable of harming reptiles.

 

[Ozymandias]

never thought about that, the trick i mentioned is usually used for things like getting rid of chemical fertilizers or other things like that.

 

[Matusallem]

Yeah, getting rid of chemicals is really different from getting rid of parasites. This is what halts me from trying out new insects as feeders. PARASITES.

 

[Allee Toler]

Then purchase them from a breeder. I got mine from a friend with an established colony. Like Roy, I fed off my colony when I first started building it and didn't let them grow. I've had them for about 7 months. I started feeding them off a few months ago in small amounts. Even now I still don't feed them as much as I'd like to. I'm still waiting for the colony to get bigger. I started off with 5.20, though. I'm around 100 adults. I started from a smalllll group... But hey, my roaches were free. Patience is worth it I guess.

 

[Matusallem]

Yeah. . . I've been trying to find affordable export prices for quite a few while now.

 

[Ozymandias]

you might try with some local hobbits or even inquire at some zoo's or other places that study insects. i know quite alot of the roaches found in the US were first imported by scientific institutes then from there fell into hobbits hands

 

[Matusallem]

by hobbits you mean hobbyists right? lol. Well, yeah thats excactly what I try to do, yet I have become the source for feeders on local conservation projects. That really sucks, I am also involved with Smithsonian Tropical Research Center (STRI) and I have had little or no success in getting feeders. Pet stores are really irresponsible in my country, providing the pets but not the food!!!

 

[Ozymandias]

ya sorry about the spelling, well my only suggestion is ether collect them from the wild and see if you can get them tested out by some one, or just always be on the looks out for some captive breed ones.