cryptosporidium

[@marko@]

a few weeks ago, i lost Rheia, my leopard gecko i got when i was 12 to cryptosporidiosis. she caught it from an adopted leopard gecko i took in to try and save from a neglectful home. over the weekend i soaked the cage and some of the decor in bleach to sterilize after being misinformed that clorox bleach will kill cryptosporidium oocysts, if the soak is long enough.
about an hour ago, i placed my new leopard gecko into that prepared cage with clean papertowel bedding, 2 caves (bleached), and a newly made moist hide. i was nervous so i spoke to my mother who is a doctor, only to find out that while full strength ammonia will do a relatively good job sterilizing cryptosporidium, and industrial strength bleach will do some damage after 15 min; household bleach is worthless against crypto oocysts.
the new leo was in the cage mentioned prior for about 20-30 min, before i removed her, washed my hands and her (hands with soap, leo with just running water), before placing her in a shoe box with a makeshift water bowl as temporary measure until i get all new supplies tomorrow.

what are the odds that she will develop cryptosporidiosis?

also, if you guys can help me stockpile any info/experiences on this disease, i would appreciate it.

 

[avoidtheboyd]

Probably not that likely if it was only 20 mins. Crypto is pretty contagious but its mainly if they come in contact with fecal matter. She has a slight chance but probably not that likely.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

I agree...chances are slim in that short of time in an enclosure that was relatively clean. If I was you, I'd start fresh with a whole new enclosure and accessories. Crypto is one tough cookie to get rid of. Better safe than sorry.

 

[@marko@]

yep i went out today and bought brand new everything. ran me over $200, and thats with -$50 with my petco card. i dont remember things being so expensive.

i put the old terrarium and equipment into storage. it should be usable eventually. cryptosporidium cant survive indefinately without a host, so its only a matter of time before the oocysts die off (havent gotten an exact number from any source, but all of them say "monthes", so a few years ought to do it).

 

[avoidtheboyd]

im sure theyres some way to cleanse it. I know my dog shelter had an outbreak of it and they got it cleansed.

 

[@marko@]

industrial strength ammonia can kill it, but i read its not 100% effective. and a mammalian immune system is much better at fighting crypto. in mammals such as humans the ID50 is higher than reptiles, and the infection is self-limiting (except in the case of immunocompromised individuals).

i think the surest way to kill it would be a long soak in industrial strength ammonia followed by a a few weeks of warmth and humidity. if you keep the item at 100F, doing wet-dry cycles for a few weeks with humidity at >80%, the cells' metabolisms should increase significantly, causing them to deplete whatever energy reserves they have much faster and die of starvation. but thats too imprecise to be reliable.
i dont intend to reuse anything for the next 4 years minimum, and wont trust anything unless sterilized with an autoclave (which would melt the plastic and silicone off the terrarium).

 

[avoidtheboyd]

Full grown dogs immunites are better but these were the puppy part so.

 

[chkelly]

Are we talking Cryptosporidium parvum? According to this paper aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/58/11/3494.pdf dessication is a very effective method of killing the oocyte. Specifically note table three. They dessicated at standard room humidity for > four hours for 100% kill. The oocytes survive best in cool humid conditions. So cleaning well and "air drying" for a extended period should do the trick, no? Unless we are not talking C. parvum and the oocytes are of a much hardier strain than discussed in this study.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Use the search feature here on GU. There's been quite a few threads on crypto over the years. Some are more helpful than others. But you're likely to find some enlightening info. I would search specifically here in the leo forum as well as the "Pests and Diseases" forum.

 

[chkelly]

Yes, I have read many of the articles here. I was just questioning the advice to throw out a entire enclosure as if crypto was some sort of magic spell that could not be removed (I really don't mean to sound snarky but not sure how to convey the impression I get of the tone some of the discussions take on.) Is it highly contagious and a problem to take seriously, of course, but it seems as if disinfection is possible!

 

[dragonslare]

Hey,

I scrubbed my tanks out throughly and then poured 91% Isopropyl alcohol and let it soak for awhile, poured it out and placed my aquarium outside (upside down) in below freezing temps for a week. Nasty stuff and with no cure.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Yes, I have read many of the articles here. I was just questioning the advice to throw out a entire enclosure as if crypto was some sort of magic spell that could not be removed (I really don't mean to sound snarky but not sure how to convey the impression I get of the tone some of the discussions take on.) Is it highly contagious and a problem to take seriously, of course, but it seems as if disinfection is possible!

I guess that depends on what you're dealing with. Many us are professional breeders with thousands of dollars worth of animals at stake. To me, throwing out a $50 tank far outweighs risking the loss of animals that can result with a crypto issue. For those dealing with a $20 leo, I suppose it might be worth the risk??? I guess it depends on how much you're willing to risk for your pet. I'd rather be safe than sorry personally.

 

[chkelly]

I would not put a $20 animal into an enclosure that I wouldn't be willing to put a $500 animal into. I don't look at the minimal risk (and hell unless you rip up the flooring in your reptile room you will still have a vanishingly small amount of risk following an outbreak) as being more than we incur when animals are shipped or when we walk into our reptile room without changing our shoes clothes etc after being in the wide world (yes I have worked in research facilities where animal room procedures did require this.)
Some people sterilize the outside of their groceries to prevent getting germs but that doesn't make those of us who don't do that irresponsible with our health. If due diligence is taken (assuming that the enclosure is capable of being adequately cleaned) then there should be no reason why it cannot be used again. Hospitals don't throw out the beds when someone dies in them.

 

[chkelly]

As to the isopropanol and freezing. If you look at the article I posted, freezing was not an adequate disinfection method (up to >700 hours still had some sample viability).
Isopropanol, especially at high concentration like you used may or may not work, I don't know. For some bacterial species (crypto is a protozoan) high concentrations like 95% (as opposed to lower %s) actually can cause a "preservation" condition in which the organism has an increased amount of viability/survival to subsequent disinfection methods.

However, I am not a Vet nor a parasitologist so I really am not suggesting a method for disinfection, simply saying that I believe it is possible.

 

[@marko@]

Hey,

I scrubbed my tanks out throughly and then poured 91% Isopropyl alcohol and let it soak for awhile, poured it out and placed my aquarium outside (upside down) in below freezing temps for a week. Nasty stuff and with no cure.

alcohols are more antiseptics than disinfectants. and i would think freezing temps would preserve the oocysts rather than kill them.

I would not put a $20 animal into an enclosure that I wouldn't be willing to put a $500 animal into. I don't look at the minimal risk (and hell unless you rip up the flooring in your reptile room you will still have a vanishingly small amount of risk following an outbreak) as being more than we incur when animals are shipped or when we walk into our reptile room without changing our shoes clothes etc after being in the wide world (yes I have worked in research facilities where animal room procedures did require this.)
Some people sterilize the outside of their groceries to prevent getting germs but that doesn't make those of us who don't do that irresponsible with our health. If due diligence is taken (assuming that the enclosure is capable of being adequately cleaned) then there should be no reason why it cannot be used again. Hospitals don't throw out the beds when someone dies in them.

i agree, i saved my equipment, i just wont use it for years until im absolutely sure all the oocysts have died.
and depending on the illness i think a hospital may in fact dispose of the bed, such as in the case of TB.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

I would not put a $20 animal into an enclosure that I wouldn't be willing to put a $500 animal into. I don't look at the minimal risk (and hell unless you rip up the flooring in your reptile room you will still have a vanishingly small amount of risk following an outbreak) as being more than we incur when animals are shipped or when we walk into our reptile room without changing our shoes clothes etc after being in the wide world (yes I have worked in research facilities where animal room procedures did require this.)
Some people sterilize the outside of their groceries to prevent getting germs but that doesn't make those of us who don't do that irresponsible with our health. If due diligence is taken (assuming that the enclosure is capable of being adequately cleaned) then there should be no reason why it cannot be used again. Hospitals don't throw out the beds when someone dies in them.

Nobody called anyone irresponsible. I simply gave my opinion. To me, it wouldn't be worth the risk to my collection.

 

[Emilylovesherps]

Hey guys! I know I am coming in a lil late on this question, so please forgive me. All of the following info comes from a Herp vet:

The organism that effects leopard geckos is C. serpentis, not C. parvo, as someone had brought up earlier. Different treatments work for different species. However, this species does not live as long as some of the others. Crypto is a parasite that thrives in a wet warm environment. It can't live past 96 hours without this. Cleaning procedures that have been deemed effective: dessication (completely drying out) 24 hours or more; heat-above 150 F minimum; Chlorine bleach-0.4 parts per million for 15 min; Hydrogen Peroxide-7.5% for 10 min; Ozone-1.1 ppmillion for 5 min; Ammonium Compouns-10% for 10 min. UV sterilization also works, and other sterilizing ampules work as well, but most of us don't have access to these means of sterilization

Hope this helps.