Thinking of getting a tokay or two!

[Chitown herper]

I have been getting more and more into the reptile world an I find them so fascinating! I currently have 3 ball pythons and a few leopard geckos I know tokays are more challenging but that's why I want one and I have always liked the look of them. The reptile shop by my house is called the Chicago reptile house an they have a good reputation but the tokays they carry are WC....there is an expo here this weekend at tinley park but I know the CB ones are more expensive and probably parasite free... The WC ones are $15... What is you'r guys opinions on WC vs cb ?

 

[thehotchik1000]

Look at it this way. As a cb breeder I am always going to advocate for CB. Why? Well this is why. When I first got into tokays years and years ago now I had the same mind set. Why spend 100.00 when I could spend 10.00? That's silly. I got my first 3 tokays in and spent over 300.00 in vet bills and countless hours on rehabbing them. Here's a pic of one of my to this day breeders when I first got her.

Nasty huh? For me propagating the cycle of yuk that these animals go through to be imported just sucks and it's not for the first timer. If you are getting your first tokay I highly suggest paying the extra money and having no issues with your animal. Vet bills are expensive and the heart ache of it is not all of them are able to make it through treatment. Some of them are just too far gone. In any way you get what you pay for. You can either pay 15.00 for a non socialized, emaciated, parasite infested wc and spend lots of money and time rehabbing it. Or you can support a us based breeder and there's plenty of us around and receive a fat, happy, healthy animal. If I had known what I had to go through when I got my first tokays I would have spent longer looking for a cb breeder. There weren't many of us around then. But I remeber having the same mindset. Not to mention you have other reptiles. Keep in mind that you will Have to do a very strict qt with a wc. Or else you'll be treating all of your animals for parasites. Things like that can be transferred with a simple touch. Go cb and get quality.
Hope this helps.



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[Chitown herper]

Thanks for the detailed response I do appreciate it I will ask the reptile house how they get the tokays as I'm still curious, out of the two that I saw one was fat and beautifully colored, the other was a little skinny and black like he was really stressed.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

There simply is no reason these days to buy wc other than trying to be cheap. And honestly, if you can't afford $75 or so for the geckos, you likely should wait until you can because the cost of the gecko is only the begging of the total costs involved. Also, as Morgan said, instead of supporting the mass wild caught animal market, buying captive bred supports a US breeder that takes the time and effort to produce these wonderful creatures.

 

[billewicz]

Ditto! Just read through some of the more recent forum postings here, "Tokay not eating, Tokay HELP", etc. Every one is an inexpensive wild caught import that has not seen food or water in weeks. Most of them do not make it. We have had one or two pull through after hours and weeks of coaching and gut wrenching nights wondering if the poor little guy is going to make it through the night.

So, if you still fall in love with a 'healthy' looking WC Tokay and you just have to have it, then take it to the Reptile vet on Monday with fresh fecal for the exam and expect to pay $100 to to $135 for the visit/exam/lab work and meds.

And good luck.

Michael's Tokay Hoard @ www.billewicz.com

 

[Chitown herper]

I got ya and money isn't the issue I just wanted the opinions of a few people that have dealt with both WC and CB ...I'm still doing alot of research and I'll talk to a few breeders this weekend at the narbc tinley park show

 

[thehotchik1000]

Like I said earlier I dealt with primarily wc while getting my collection started. It's much easier if you know what to look for and can do the fecals and meds on your own. As a first timer though no I wouldn't suggest getting a wc. Theres just no reason to unless your importing yourself to get the morphs. And even then I'd rather find a cb breeder. For some of the morphs though that's just not possible. For normals though there are so many literally so many thoughtful and caring breeders that care for them like their own children. Why not support that? I think if you knew what most imported animals went though in the importation process especially a pet store "goldfish" such a tokay you'd realize That going cb is the way to go. It's not a healthy process for them and I'd rather do things the right way and have far less issues than the cheap way.


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[billewicz]

Cool.

I work with a lot of imported morphs and knocking down the parasite load a.s.a.p. is everything in hedging your bet.

High nutritionally gut loaded and dusted feeders, the right humidity and temps and sufficient vertical hides will all contribute to a successful acclimation.

The meds will need to be administered orally again every week for the next couple, to three weeks depending on the test results and the meds administered. This means you'll have to get up close and personal with your new WC on a regular basis.

Get yourself a pair of the synthetic 'tech' gloves from Home Depot or Lowes. The give you enough protection and still have fairly good feeling and can be slipped off if he decides to latch on for a spell.

 

[Chitown herper]

I completely understand your points but what if I got lucky with the healthy looking one at the shop... I'll ask where they get it, if they get it checked for parasites and so on because why would they put WC tokays with the possibility of parasites in a tank next to all there other animals...??? I don't think there that stupid but ya never know.. Most probably started with WC tokays and after they breed I will have cb tokays? Correct?

 

[Aimless]

you think your pet store is worried about putting sick and healthy animals near each other?

I'm sorry to be so cynical, but very few pet stores are more concerned with anything beyond getting good value for their stock. it's not like they're quarantining new acquisitions.

it seems like you've asked these experienced people for advice and are getting defensive, and insisting that you're going to ignore the advice and that your reasons are good.

these guys are the experts - they have a lot of experience with Tokays and they know what they're talking about. you might "get lucky" - but then you might bring home a gecko loaded with crypto that kills off your whole collection. Tokays are readily available CB and you'd be crazy to get a WC specimen from a petstore when you can go to a reliable, trusted breeder that will sell you a healthy baby.

if you want to save money, start a roach colony - you can feed your geckos for less than $5 a month throughout their entire lifespan, which could be well over a decade if you buy a CB healthy baby...

 

[Chitown herper]

I don't get why they would bring pets into there store loaded with parasites when then could lose there whole collection which is worth a ton...they breed high end ball pythons there at shop so why would they risk it?? I'm not questioning anybodys knowledge or experience just trying to understand

 

[Aimless]

the reason I would be concerned is that one of their Tokays was "skinny and stressed" - if they do test their stock for parasites, they're a great pet store because that's not routine.

do they use reptile carpet? that's another sign you shouldn't buy a gecko there -

 

[Chitown herper]

No repti carpet , I would hope they do check for parasites it's strictly a reptile shop, they have perfect habitats set up for each species ...

 

[Chitown herper]

And I say stressed because he was almost black, and from what I've read a darker color can mean there stressed..and I guess I shouldn't say skinny it was a Juvie I believe and a worker there grabbed him out of the tank for me so I didn't get a really good look at him.

 

[billewicz]

'Hope' is not a good business practice. And let's get real. This is business we are talking about here.

You might find a pet shop, better wholesalers and importers who will have Panacur on hand to treat visually sick animals. Panacur is readily available online but it does not cover flagellants. The most common medications for this are available only from a vet so it is rare to find them in use at a pet shop, etc.

You said you would hope that they would check for parasites. Have you ever seen a microscope and fecal testing at a pet shop? :coverlaugh:

I do know of importers, wholesalers and such that have working relationships with vets to treat their livestock, but only for the higher priced and investment animals.

You will not find these companies spending more on hydration and meds than they paid for the animal.

The sad truth of the import game is; bring in hundreds or thousands of cheap animals at a time to keep the shipping & imports fees down. :-x

Your $15-$25 pays for the $1-$3 they paid for that one, and the 6-10 that died. Sorry, but one would be naive to think that anyone spent another $10 to $20 to treat them as a part of a mass vet visit.

 

[Aimless]

hmm. I don't know - do what you like, but I still think you'd be nuts not to get a CBB Tokay.

 

[tombo46]

For me there are 5 reasons why anyone would want to buy a wild caught reptile.

1. The reptile is rare in captivity and hard to find.
2. The above is true and you wish to change this by setting up a captive breeding project.
3. The species being imported has limited numbers in the wild and you wish to re-introduce the species in to the wild.
4. The animals "morph" is a rare one otherwise unseen in captivity.
5. To introduce "new blood" into a breeding project. However if I was to do this I would take a LTC/CB Tokay out of the already captive population.

So lets look at the Tokay Gecko...
1. The Tokay is common in captivity and very easily sourced.
2. As above...
3. Tokays are very common in the wild and very widespread, even as invasive species! To give you an idea of how common they are. My Dad has 6 wild Tokays living in his house in Cambodia.
4. "Wild type" colour Tokays are commonly bred.
5. Genetic issues through line breeding are rare due to so many captive bred Tokays being F1/F2's. The gene pool is MASSIVE. With the introductions of morphs comes line breeding so "new blood" may well be needed. This however could easily be sourced from the already captive population.

The fact's above should help you make an educated decision.

 

[thehotchik1000]

Above totally yes!! Again the fact is I'd that a pet store is not going to spend more money on treating the animals for parasites. And unless the qt each one individually reinfection is highly likely. Secondly, they are a business they ate about making money. If they really wanted to the could spend a little bit of extra money and talk to a cb breeder about a whole sale deal. Thirdly, hoping is just not good enough. In a multiples enclosure if one has them they all have them. They could realistically not treat them and not have to worry about infection of other animals. It is realistic. Tokays are easy. Given a large enclosure all they would have to do it throw food in there and Give them some humidity. They may barely touch the animals. If they do they could wash their hands and all would be fine. Or they may not even care that much. The unfortunate part is 99.9% of Wcs have parasites. I've yet to come across one that doesn't. 95% of Petstores don't treat for that. That 5% just isn't worth it to me. I guarentee you.... You will save money and time just buying a cb. 100% guarenteed. Seriously. If money isn't an issue what is? You'll be saving money and time and supporting the US economy. Why not?


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[Ozymandias]

there is also the issue of personality, as i understand it CB animals tend to be easier to handle if you have to handle them. where as my WC tokay has two retractions if you try to touch her she will ether run or if you do manage to get ahold of her it's to bite you. i would defiantly recommend a CB over WC, and hell you have NARBC near you, one of the best show in the US there is. there really is no reason for you not to get CB when you get a healthy animal that is used to humans.

 

[Chitown herper]

Well went to the narbc show and there were no tokays at all... I was really disappointed but I ended up getting a crested gecko..