Worried about my female Tokay Gecko

[drillman]

My female Tokay Gecko hasn't eaten for the past 6 or 7 days or at least I don't think she has. I've also notice she started to hide behind her tube rather in her tube in the last week. Usually when I put the cricket bowl in the cage she out and going for the crickets in a matter of a few seconds. She also will take crickets from my hand if I hold the them up to her tube. But this has changed in the past week. She also has gotten skinny or boney around the base of the tail or pelvis. Now for her weights.

11/302011 41 grams
01/03/2012 50 "
02/02/2012 59 "
03/01/2012 58 "
03/26/2012 60 "

She is also pregnant or appears pregnant. I found 2 eggs on 1/19/2012 and another 2 on 2/14/2012. She has appeared to be pregnant for the past 3 or 4 weeks and hasn't laid the 3rd set.

I mist the cage a couple of times in the evening and again around 4 am.
The male and the female will just look at me when I mist the cage. When I mist again they are in the same spot and haven't moved since the last misting. If I hit them they get upset, bark and or run. Even if the female gets hit by the slightest bit of mist while she is in her tube, she will make a croaking sound.

Temps during the day are 88 degrees F at the top, middle 85 and 78 at the bottom. I have it set for about a 10 degree drop during the night.

OK, so a little while ago I read on this forum that somebody said to warm the water before misting. So did this and tried giving her a very light misting near her nose and she started to lick the water. I did this for a while until she started to back up and loose her gripe. I put my hand under her to get a hold of her. She didn't like this, but I manage to get her in my hand with out grabbing or restraining her. She went from a light green to a dark olive drab color in less than a minute. I tried to give her some warm water and then some warm fruit juice with a paint brush. She drank a little water. She also did some barking and croaking while sitting in the palm of my hand. I did this all this with out restraining her and trying not to stress her. She did feel the need to bark and then nip my finger tip while just sitting in the palm of my hand. This is the first time that I ever held or even held her.

I think the problem with her is that she is dehydrated. I keep a water bowl at the bottom of the cage near where their cricket bowl goes. I know they don't drink from bowls but just in case I even set up a camera to see if they drink from it because I never see them drinking even when I mist the cage.

So the first picture below was taken on 3/16/2012 and the rest taken today. I would really appreciate if anybody would know if she is dehydrated and or egg bound and the best way to treat her.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Aimless]

whoa. her tail looks very thin in proportion to how round her belly is.

I'm not certain if egg-bound Tokays look like that, but it's characteristic of parasites or impaction.

I'd take her to a vet. good luck with her.

 

[drillman]

Female Tokay

I bought her from a forum member who is probably one of the best Tokay keepers on this site. He claims that she has been treated for parasites. I put the crickets in a bowl so hopefully that reduces the chances of ingesting wood chips. I'm wondering if she is dehydrated and it is causing her to be impacted or not laying the eggs that she may have? I've been raising my own crickets, but original batch came from Petco. Could their crickets be infected with parasites. My local vet doesn't know much about reptiles. She once told a patient to rotate iguana eggs like you do with chicken eggs. The vet that I believe know something about reptiles is about 45 miles away. I will have to see if I can get a bent out of shape Tokay Gecko out of here tube that has 4 eggs in it.

Thanks for replying

 

[billewicz]

Hello,

Yes she was treated for parasites as all of our imports are for three weeks when they first arrive. That's not to say crickets can't bring something in later which usually has little effect on a healthy, acclimated Tokay.

From your egg laying time table it seems she is overdue. Her body is putting everything into egg production above her own needs.

I am concerned about her 'bloating' which might be from her egg retention. Egg binding is serious and will need to be handled by a reptile vet. Treatment can include physical manipulation, hormonal stimulation, removal of the egg contents (ovocentesis)
or surgical removal of the eggs.

Egg binding causes:

Lack of exercise or inactivity can lead to poor muscle tone and the inability to produce strong, repeated contractions. A female may become exhausted before she completes laying of all the eggs.

Lack of or improper nesting site. A private, quiet vertical area is needed for her to lay. Tokay have been known to stop laying if their nesting and egg laying site has been disturbed or moved.

Improper temperature or incorrect temperature cycling, improper humidity. Your temp drop is good but I'd still move the daytime up to 90 degrees and mist her again during the morning and afternoon.

Dehydration is always a concern. Keep misting her nose so she licks the drops.

Kidney disease from dehydration or over production of eggs will cause the kidneys to become enlarged and partially block the pelvic area or shut down all together. This is very common in young wild caught Tokay.

From there she needs to be rested from the male for several months until she can regain her own reserves.

Good luck and all the best,

Michael

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

If she's gravid, it wouldn't be surprising if she's not eating. And since she's on her third clutch of the year, it's no surprise that she's thin. It's a little too soon to be worrying about egg binding IMO. So, I don't see any reason to panic. Keeping her hydrated via daily misting is still very important. And I would keep her stress levels to a minimum as stress can and will cause eggs binding. So no more handling than needed. If she's in with a male I would remove him though. She's obviously not in any shape to continue laying more clutches any time soon. Once she lays the current clutch I would start giving her lots of well gutloaded well dusted prey and lots of privacy to keep her stress levels low. And then sit back and wait for your 6 eggs to hatch out.

 

[billewicz]

I agree, but I did want to post the egg binding information more from a preventative perspective.

I'd still bring the temps and misting up a notch.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

I was posting this at the same time as you so I hadn't seen your post. I do agree that it's important to continue to keep an eye on her for the possibility of egg binding. But hopefully she'll lay any day now. She certainly looks like she's good and ready.

 

[billewicz]

FYI: I just got off the phone with my reptile vet, Dr. Scott Stahl, (SEAVS.com - Stahl Exotic Animal Veterinary Services) who is considered an expert in the field of reptile medicine. Zoos FedEx him reptiles for treatment.

Here is his standard protocol for treating egg binding in gecko.

Proper temps and hydration are key. If she is dehydrated, the eggs will not slide down the duct. Fluids via injection if needed.

Liquid calcium is administered because lack of minerals will cause the eggs to stick as well.

Medicam or Meloxicam is given to reduce swelling.

Baytril or other antibiotic is started to fight infection that is typical when eggs stay too long in the duct.

This is a two week treatment. Your vet will have these products which are common to their practice.

 

[drillman]

Female Tokay

I've raised the cage temp by 2 degrees or should I raise it so more? Should I decrease the amount the the temp drops during the night. The night drop is 10 degrees. Is it too early to early to worry about being egg bound and/or to take here to a vet? I'm afraid of taking her to a vet and over treating her unnessarily her which would do her more harm. Last night I tried giving her a light misting near her nose but not on her nose. She would turn her head around and bark and croak at the spray nozzle. I'm going to give her a 4th hide to choose from. I will put this one near the spot that she likes to hang out on.

Thanks everyone for their support.

 

[billewicz]

Right now in Indonesia the average is 90 during the day and 78 at night. 90/80 is fine for the majority of the enclosure. Naturally the hide areas will tend to be cooler so that is OK.

You can lead a Tokay to water ..... In this situation, I like direct misting just to make sure she has the option to drink.

Hopefully she'll drop those eggs in a couple of days.

 

[drillman]

Female Tokay

Right now she is just sitting on a plant ledge near her favorite spot. She is usually on the side of the wall and is a light green color. Now she is a dark olive drab color. I gave her the extra hide but, she hasn't gone in it.
The other cage ( for the male ) is about finished. I'll try to keep her misted and hydrated without annoying her.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[billewicz]

She will want to lay in the same pots as the other eggs. If that has been removed for incubation, then she'll have to find another spot that suits her.

Some will lay in the PVC tube. Mine are 80% on the slate between the slate and cork bark. The other 20% lay on the cork bark facing the slate.

I hope she lays soon, good luck!

Michael

 

[drillman]

Female Tokay

She laid the first four eggs in the same tube. I left the eggs there. The only time the tube was moved was when I weighted her and the tube. I did this as gently as possible and with out looking into the tube which would of bothered her. She only did a little croaking one time. I also weighted the tube once without her to get the weight of the first 2 eggs. The first 2 eggs weighted 3.5 grams each. I've tried to disturb her and the eggs as little as possible.

Thanks,
Jim