Gonatodes albogularis fuscus hatchling

[Nshepard]

Well, initially I didn't want to post about this project in too much detail until I got some good shots of the adults but that is proving hard, so I am going to just post this few photos of the hatchlings, set-ups, etc.

Purchased 4.4 of the recent imported WC animals that came in this spring in an attempt to get a few some CB offspring established. I have always been fascinating in keeping Gonatodes since catching a few species in Ecuador back in 2008 and I wanted to try something a little different for me (mostly snake keeper). This group is a join-project between myself and a two individuals I used to work with.

Anyway, I keep them in 10 gallon vertical cages with plenty of cork bark and live plants to provide hiding places. I am using 13w florescent bulbs for a photo-period and some heat (12:12). Keep them in the 77-84F range during the summer as its cooled a little recently.

My first egg was laid on the weekend of August 3rd (while I was out of town), which hatched on the weekend of 22-sept-2012 (again, while out of town). I couldn't remove the egg from the enclosure due to placement (high up on cork bark) so I just removed the adult male when the egg hatched.

Pair #3
Egg:

Hatchling:

My second egg was laid on the 8th of August (I was in town for this one) and hatched on the 30th of September (again, I was in town for this one), thus 53 days of incubation at about 76-78F. I incubated this egg in a seperate set-up (could easily remove the egg, laid in leaf litter and soil). Incubation time was about the same for egg #1.
Pair #2
Egg:

Incubation set-up:

Morning after hatching while in incubation set-up:

Second hatchling, not even a day old:

The third egg (from Pair #1) was laid on the 14th of September and I am estimating a hatching date of October the 6th if this egg says consistent with #1 and #2.

Unfortunately, I did have some issues. One of my females came in with mild 'red bugs' and died within a couple weeks of getting them. I chalked it up to them being WC and figured I did all I could - and this could still be the case. But after the first female laid egg #1, she died about a week later. Then, the female that laid egg #2 died about a week later. Anyway, I was slightly confused as both seemed to be eating and doing great. Well, after I noticed egg #3 I started feeding that female everyday, huge amounts of bean beetles and fruit flies. I plan to work some small crickets into the mix soon. Anyway, she is still doing really well and has grown a lot and put back all the weight she lost from laying her egg. I am starting to cool them down so they can save resources for next season (will separate the pair next month). I really don't want to push anything with them.

When I first got them I did a group fecal. One sample that consisted for several fecals, not all the individuals were accounted for in that fecal but most. They turned out to be really clear/clean fecals. I haven't noticed any 'red bugs' since that first female that had them died when I first got them 4 pairs.

Anyway, that is the story with this project. I don't have any good shots of the adults as they are super easy to spook, hatchlings seem to tolerate a lot more attention. The week old is quite curious and only seems to run off when I open the cage.

Anyone else working with this species or group, interested in swapping information, thanks! There really isn't that much on the internet about this group; at least available in English that is!
Hope you enjoyed!

 

[miguel camacho!]

I don't know if it's a spam filter in place to discourage spam accounts, but I can vouch for NShepard (a good personal/research/herping friend of mine).

I hope you saved your original submission, dude! I was lookin forward to you finally entering the gecko arena!

 

[hexentanz]

Gonatodes - G. albogularis fuscus care sheet care sheet in English (Well Czech English)? :biggrin:


I can tell you a few quick and useful things about Gonatodes (Sphaerodactylus are pretty similar care wise); The females must absolutely have crushed up cuttlefish bone available to them 24/7. They do best when fed twice weekly, anything more can lead to over supplementation (at least that I have found). You need good supplements. They like dry warm locations to lay their eggs. They cannot cling to glass like most other geckos (Sphaerodactylus however can). They do really poorly when fed fruitflies or in general when not fed enough of a variety of food. They do best when fed a diet consisting of; Firebrats, Micro Crickets, Micro Roaches, Small Woodlice, Grain Weevils, Small Waxmoths (fed in moderation, as they are fatty), houseflies and Field sweepings to name a few. The young are very sensitive when exposed to UVB, it has been known between a few keepers to cause shedding problems, burns or death. They supposedly do not bask, but I have often found my male hanging upside down from the screen directly under the lamp, so I gave him a 10w heat lamp recently.

That pretty much is the general basics. Perhaps Dendrophel will come along and point out somethings I may have missed.

 

[Nshepard]

cuttlefish bone available to them 24/7.

best when fed twice weekly

anything more can lead to over supplementation (at least that I have found). You need good supplements.

They do really poorly when fed fruitflies or in general when not fed enough of a variety of food. They do best when fed a diet consisting of; Firebrats, Micro Crickets, Micro Roaches, Small Woodlice, Grain Weevils, Small Waxmoths (fed in moderation, as they are fatty), houseflies and Field sweepings to name a few.

The young are very sensitive when exposed to UVB, it has been known between a few keepers to cause shedding problems, burns or death. They supposedly do not bask, but I have often found my male hanging upside down from the screen directly under the lamp, so I gave him a 10w heat lamp recently.

Thanks!

I've recently heard about cuttle-bone, how crushed up should it be when offered? I use it with a couple of my turtles, so I do have it on hand.

Twice weekly? It seem their metabolism is too fast for that. Admitatly, I don't feed my lones males as much as I do my females. And, I don't feed them exactly everyday. But, I offer fruit flies and bean beetles on the order of four - five days a week, depends how my cultures are doing.

Over supplementation: Now, I have never experienced this before - never really gave it much thought. I have been using Repashy calcium plus pretty much solely.

I am working to integrate more food items into their diet. Hooking up with a nearby cricket source. I supplement a lot with bean beetles, which they prefer hands down over fruit flies.

I agree, I am not going to use UVB at all on these guys. My florescent bulbs (13w) do not put out any UVB. Seeing how they are primary a lower ground / trunk specialist, they don't get much direct sunlight naturally. I have caught my animals 'bask' but I believe its less of basking and more of just thermoregulation. This winter when the temps drop, I'll probably change it up to give him more of a heat bulb to help maintain temperatures.

SO, how do you all cycle your Gonatodes? Temperature profiles?

*UPDATE* Found a hatchling yesterday I didn't know about. Still haven't seen evidence of an egg. It was seen in the cage with the parents...this will be a nightmare to separate. Which this means that my 'third' egg (22-sept) was actually a second egg from that pair. Stoked I have another hatchling, wish I would have caught it before it hatched.

 

[hexentanz]

Cuttlefish bone - I do not make it smaller than _ as I find the females prefer to chew it as opposed to licking it up.

Yes Twice weekly (anything would overeat if you let it) feeding. You can also do 3 times weekly if you like, however you should never put more food in there than they could eat up within 5 minutes! For example I put in 5 micro crickets per adult animal or 3 adult sized firebrats (for larger mouthed animals) per adult.

Over supplementation... Sphaerodactylus and Gonatodes seem to be very sensitive when it comes to non calcium supplements, I believe this is the main cause for why so many of my females died in the beginning. So if you do want to feed them 3 times weekly, I recommend using an all in one supplement. I tried Calcium Plus for my Sphaerodactylus once, got an egg bound female (who never had issues at all!) in the end and I am not alone. Calcium Plus is great for other animals though!

In Winter we provided a 10 hour photo period and 12 hours during the breeding season. Temperatures depend on the type of Gonatodes. For yours the temps should be between 25-30°C (sorry the conversion site i use is down) daily (during the breeding season) with normal lighting (heat lamps can naturally be higher) with a drop of 2-5 degrees at night. It should also be noted that you should never let the temperature drop below 18°C for too long!

Thanks!

I've recently heard about cuttle-bone, how crushed up should it be when offered? I use it with a couple of my turtles, so I do have it on hand.

Twice weekly? It seem their metabolism is too fast for that. Admitatly, I don't feed my lones males as much as I do my females. And, I don't feed them exactly everyday. But, I offer fruit flies and bean beetles on the order of four - five days a week, depends how my cultures are doing.

Over supplementation: Now, I have never experienced this before - never really gave it much thought. I have been using Repashy calcium plus pretty much solely.

I am working to integrate more food items into their diet. Hooking up with a nearby cricket source. I supplement a lot with bean beetles, which they prefer hands down over fruit flies.

I agree, I am not going to use UVB at all on these guys. My florescent bulbs (13w) do not put out any UVB. Seeing how they are primary a lower ground / trunk specialist, they don't get much direct sunlight naturally. I have caught my animals 'bask' but I believe its less of basking and more of just thermoregulation. This winter when the temps drop, I'll probably change it up to give him more of a heat bulb to help maintain temperatures.

SO, how do you all cycle your Gonatodes? Temperature profiles?

*UPDATE* Found a hatchling yesterday I didn't know about. Still haven't seen evidence of an egg. It was seen in the cage with the parents...this will be a nightmare to separate. Which this means that my 'third' egg (22-sept) was actually a second egg from that pair. Stoked I have another hatchling, wish I would have caught it before it hatched.

 

[Nshepard]

Cuttlefish bone - I do not make it smaller than _ as I find the females prefer to chew it as opposed to licking it up.

Yes Twice weekly (anything would overeat if you let it) feeding. You can also do 3 times weekly if you like, however you should never put more food in there than they could eat up within 5 minutes! For example I put in 5 micro crickets per adult animal or 3 adult sized firebrats (for larger mouthed animals) per adult.

Over supplementation... Sphaerodactylus and Gonatodes seem to be very sensitive when it comes to non calcium supplements, I believe this is the main cause for why so many of my females died in the beginning. So if you do want to feed them 3 times weekly, I recommend using an all in one supplement. I tried Calcium Plus for my Sphaerodactylus once, got an egg bound female (who never had issues at all!) in the end and I am not alone. Calcium Plus is great for other animals though!

In Winter we provided a 10 hour photo period and 12 hours during the breeding season. Temperatures depend on the type of Gonatodes. For yours the temps should be between 25-30°C (sorry the conversion site i use is down) daily (during the breeding season) with normal lighting (heat lamps can naturally be higher) with a drop of 2-5 degrees at night. It should also be noted that you should never let the temperature drop below 18°C for too long!

Small than? I'll break off a chunk for each pair.

I'm not so sure over supplementation is the reason for the high female-only mortality. 1st, only one died in the beginning and that seems a little fast. The other two died at the same time relative to egg-laying. Still not sure I'd say over supplementation over stress and energy reserved (as the males are perfectly fine). But, nonetheless perhaps I will change that up a little. A few close friends keep some S. elegans and dust with every feeding - no problems. They seem rather hardy.

How often do you feed the hatchlings? Right now I am going with the idea of small amounts 5 times a week. Do they readily eat springtails?

Why supplementation do you use, if not Calcium Plus?

Alright, no longer than 64F (18C), what would be an acceptable low for the cooling season? ~70F (21C)?

Thanks for your input!

 

[hexentanz]

Females are a lot more sensitive than males. Males are pretty much bulletproof. All my problems came right after they laid an egg or were about to when I fed them 3 times weekly. Dusting with every feeding is not so much a problem, it is over feeding and too much vitamins as opposed to calcium which causes issues, I have found the ratio needs to be pretty much even. 1x Vitamin Supplement, 1x Calcium or a two in one like what I shall recommend below....

I use Herpetal Complete T and Herpetal Mineral + D3 with my Sphaerodactylus and Gonatodes.

I am assuming you are in the states. For you I would recommend getting these products - Rep-Cal Supplements , Rep-Cal Supplements . It is a two part system and is highly recommended by many there and used with Sphaerodactylus and Gonatodes without issue.

As for winter temps, that is something you will need to wait for Dendrophel to come around for as I only know the winter temperature for other Gonatodes. I will point him at this thread so he sees it.

Small than? I'll break off a chunk for each pair.

I'm not so sure over supplementation is the reason for the high female-only mortality. 1st, only one died in the beginning and that seems a little fast. The other two died at the same time relative to egg-laying. Still not sure I'd say over supplementation over stress and energy reserved (as the males are perfectly fine). But, nonetheless perhaps I will change that up a little. A few close friends keep some S. elegans and dust with every feeding - no problems. They seem rather hardy.

How often do you feed the hatchlings? Right now I am going with the idea of small amounts 5 times a week. Do they readily eat springtails?

Why supplementation do you use, if not Calcium Plus?

Alright, no longer than 64F (18C), what would be an acceptable low for the cooling season? ~70F (21C)?

Thanks for your input!

 

[Robyn@SYR]

Neat gecko, thanks for the pics and info!

 

[Nshepard]

Females are a lot more sensitive than males. Males are pretty much bulletproof. All my problems came right after they laid an egg or were about to when I fed them 3 times weekly. Dusting with every feeding is not so much a problem, it is over feeding and too much vitamins as opposed to calcium which causes issues, I have found the ratio needs to be pretty much even. 1x Vitamin Supplement, 1x Calcium or a two in one like what I shall recommend below....

I use Herpetal Complete T and Herpetal Mineral + D3 with my Sphaerodactylus and Gonatodes.

I am assuming you are in the states. For you I would recommend getting these products - Rep-Cal Supplements , Rep-Cal Supplements . It is a two part system and is highly recommended by many there and used with Sphaerodactylus and Gonatodes without issue.

I used to use your recommended two part repcal system 15+ years ago with Leopards. What vitamin or mineral is it that you believe they get too much of in Calcium Plus? Calcium?

I am in the process of getting a cricket supplier and will start feeding 1/8" crickets once a week and fruit flies once or twice a week. What did you raise your hatchlings on? I am using Dm for them but what to incorporate some spring tails.

Thanks for all the info!

Neat gecko, thanks for the pics and info!

Thanks!

 

[hexentanz]

What vitamin or mineral is it that you believe they get too much of in Calcium Plus? Calcium?

I sent you a Private Message as I would rather like to avoid a shitstorm in here.

 

[Michel14]

Hi everyone,
although I'm not dendrophel :fight: I'd like to tell you about my experiences with Gonatodes.
I myself have and breed Gonatodes for a few years. At the beginning, I had the same problems: the females died right before or after they had laid eggs.
So, I changed their food first - as hexentanz has already proposed. A great variety is important; just fruitflies and crickets are not enough for Gonatodes. If possible catch a small spider or some ants once in a while.
Different from hexentanz I feed my Gonatodes up to 4 times a week, cause my experience is that especially female Gonatodes just need more food (not too much, of course).

Another thing I have changed is that when I get new Gonatodes I always separate male and female, so that the females can relax from the stress of transport. I just put them into the same terrarium after 2 to 3 months.

A third important point is temperature and humidity: some female Gonatodes look for a humid spot to lay their eggs (e.g. Gonatodes ceciliae) others hide their eggs in cork attached to the back wall of the terrarium. Have wet spots in the tank (e.g. under plants) where they can hide and don't let the temperature rise too much. Gonatodes can't bear that (something I had to esperience dramatically after my summer holidays ).
However, females that are pregnant don't bear very low temperatures either.
Hope you've gained some new insight :idea:
Kind regards,
Michel 14

 

[Nshepard]

Hi everyone,
although I'm not dendrophel :fight: I'd like to tell you about my experiences with Gonatodes.
I myself have and breed Gonatodes for a few years. At the beginning, I had the same problems: the females died right before or after they had laid eggs.
So, I changed their food first - as hexentanz has already proposed. A great variety is important; just fruitflies and crickets are not enough for Gonatodes. If possible catch a small spider or some ants once in a while.
Different from hexentanz I feed my Gonatodes up to 4 times a week, cause my experience is that especially female Gonatodes just need more food (not too much, of course).

Another thing I have changed is that when I get new Gonatodes I always separate male and female, so that the females can relax from the stress of transport. I just put them into the same terrarium after 2 to 3 months.

A third important point is temperature and humidity: some female Gonatodes look for a humid spot to lay their eggs (e.g. Gonatodes ceciliae) others hide their eggs in cork attached to the back wall of the terrarium. Have wet spots in the tank (e.g. under plants) where they can hide and don't let the temperature rise too much. Gonatodes can't bear that (something I had to esperience dramatically after my summer holidays ).
However, females that are pregnant don't bear very low temperatures either.
Hope you've gained some new insight :idea:
Kind regards,
Michel 14

Thanks for the info! I am trying to figure out what other prey items I can get locally or culture myself. I do feed them bean beetles, they really seem to respond to them. I'll have to work on diet. I am also about to switch up vitamin regimes, as a number of people have recommended me go into another direction. My experience with egg laying is high area on cork bark or under leaf litter in soil. So far, I've had 100% hatch rate. I only have one right now incubating but I may get another at any moment.

I am really interested in cycling, looking for input there.

 

[pakinjak]

Excellent thread, everyone. I'm getting some of these guys this week, and this thread alone has given me more info than any other source except for the site Hexentanz linked us to. They'll be my first diurnal gecko species, as well as my first small gecko species. I'm sure I'll post about them and any advice will be much appreciated, especially the already mentioned winter temp range. My main focus is Uroplatus, and I cool them down significantly, so I need to be sure of winter temps for these guys so I can keep their tanks in the proper range.

 

[Nshepard]

As a quick update, my three hatchlings seem to be doing great. They have grown considerably and any day I am expecting another egg to hatch. I'm in the process of trying to get another 2 or 3 females. I'll try to post some updated photos soon.

 

[MdngtRain]

I know I'm finding this late, but THANKS for posting this. I recently (like tonight) got interested in these guys and want to soak up all the info I can. Any other updates on them?

 

[Heather931]

I am coming to this post quite late also and like MdngtRain am finding it VERY helpful.

I did have one question in regards to supplementation with these guys that was not really covered:

For the calcium supplement are you guys using a supplement with (if yes then what level; high, medium, low?) or without D3, or some combo of the two?

I was going to use calcium plus however I was a little skeptical about it in the first place, after reading this thread it has persuaded me to go a different rout.

 

[hexentanz]

Hi Heather,

To my knowledge we all use a Calcium Supplement for the geckos. I know some folks use Repashy Calcium Plus, but personally with these animals and Sphaerodactylus I had trouble with my females when using it. If you are able to get Herptivite and Rep-Cal in your area, this is a great two part system that I know has worked for many who tried it with these Genera. It is also a good idea to put some crushed up cuttlefish bone in the terrarium for the females at all times, just replace it as needed, or once a week so it stays fresh.

I am coming to this post quite late also and like MdngtRain am finding it VERY helpful.

I did have one question in regards to supplementation with these guys that was not really covered:

For the calcium supplement are you guys using a supplement with (if yes then what level; high, medium, low?) or without D3, or some combo of the two?

I was going to use calcium plus however I was a little skeptical about it in the first place, after reading this thread it has persuaded me to go a different rout.